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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that the concept of post natal depression is overused?

238 replies

moondog · 21/02/2010 22:24

HOW COME WOMEN HAVE TO HAVE A LABEL (sorry) for so many things?

PMS
AND
PND
Menopausal
OCD
Passive/Aggressive

It seems that the concept of being low/cross/nasty/bitchy/tired/worn out is positively old fashined.

OP posts:
claw3 · 22/02/2010 17:30

Stop it, i have brain freeze.

MamaVoo · 22/02/2010 17:43

I used to be quite dismissive of depression. I didn't understand why people couldn't just snap out of it. Then I had DS and felt like I'd fallen into a black pit. It was like nothing I'd ever experienced - completely different to feeling a bit down or having a bad day.

Yes it can feel like there are too many labels, but at least when a condition has a label it is studied, treated and taken seriously.

petisa · 22/02/2010 18:16

So was I Mama. I think it's easy to be dismissive until you experience these things. When I got divorced I suffered from anxiety for the first time in my life. Just because it was brought on by the divorce, you couldn't say it wasn't real anxiety ffs! And just because I didn't suffer from severe panic attacks, doesn't mean it wasn't anxiety either. It's not detracting from or belittling more severe forms of anxiety either, I would never have claimed to have suffered from severe anxiety fgs. And the same goes for PND!

My dp suffers from depression. Me realising that and then him admitting it too has helped us both as a couple SO much. It's not really severe depression, but it does exist (contrary to what some here would think) and comes and goes in bouts. He doesn't sit around all day moaning and whining about his imaginary depression and neither did I when I had PND. Most of the time he's relatively fine, but every month or so is hit by it again and spends a few weeks not sleeping, with a bad back, being paranoid about others' motives, not wanting to do anything sociable, and feeling numb and grey. It's not as severe as a lot of people's depression, but again, it doesn't mean he's "just down".

But I'm sure many people would just think he should "get a grip". I couldn't tell my mum I had PND because she would have been thinking the same as moondog.

daftpunk · 22/02/2010 18:25

SDTG;

I'm not being dismissive of your illness, I know how terrible depression can be...however, I agree with moondog.

And I'm pretty sure spending too much time on the internet can make depressed people worse. It doesn't matter that I'm on MN and MSN, I'm not depressed, but the more I see of what's going on around here the more I think MN has it's fair share of >..."interesting" people..

Do you know there are people on here who make it their job almost, to know everything about trolls...and I mean everything...how can that be described as normal behaviour ?

It is seriously mental...

PeachyPeachyEverPreachy · 22/02/2010 19:54

B;imey DP, nutters, almost as bad as people who vote BNP.

FFS woman, stop telling people what to do when you know nothing of their crics. It is up to grown woman where they post, for whome they vote, and all the rest of it. And yes, what trolls they chase (though that isn't one I am guilty of for once)

ShellingPeas · 22/02/2010 20:19

Bloody hell, I have read the whole thread and my head hurts!

To go back to the OP and speaking from the POV of someone who has suffered severe depression and anxiety from teenage years, including PND so severe it required hospitalisation, has a depressive mother and a bipolar sister, yes there is the need for such labels.

But these are now labels which are frequently appropriated by people who don't actually suffer from the conditions. People who experience loss, for example a death in the family, may well be unhappy and distressed, but they are not, on the whole, clinically depressed. They are understandably miserable but they are not depressed. Clinicial depression is something else completely, where you lose the ability to function properly, where everytime you go to sleep it is a little bit of that oblivion you seek and when everytime you wake up it is a huge disappointment.

There is a world of difference between feeling like you never want to wake up to being a bit unhappy or a little grumpy.

LeQueen · 22/02/2010 20:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Oblomov · 22/02/2010 20:59

I keep uhmming and ahhhing about posting on this thread.
My GP mis-diagnosed me. I wasn't depressed. I can't seem to get over what happened to me because of her.

scottishmummy · 22/02/2010 21:03

PND,has a robust clinical and diagnostic evidence base.Know what it is,but not exactly why it happens.although the risk factors are known

it is a pernicious illness affecting @ 1 in 10

not some catch all label to disguise inappropriate behaviour

quite appalled that you dismiss an illness as some faux excuse for bad behaviour

i suggest you use your cpd time to brush up on PND some good sites are RCP is a useful resource as is NICE PND guidelines

baskingseals · 22/02/2010 21:35

stayingdavidtennantsgirl, sorry but I really want to say that I don't think you've failed your boys AT ALL. I'm slowing coming to the conclusion that baking/drawing etc are things that mums do to make themselves feel better mums, I honestly don't think the kids notice that today they did finger painting and made fairy cakes, they're just as happy rolling around on the sofa with you, or digging up a molehill. They're not counting. They're BEING. You are trying to accept yourself for who you are and what has happened to you in your life. IMVHO, all you have to do is the same thing for your boys, accept them for who they are - that's it.

Sorry if I'm not expressing myself very well, but basically to me you sound lovely, and I think your boys are lucky.

mummytowillow · 22/02/2010 22:19

You sound like my now ex FIL, apparently I didn't have PND as it manifested itself differently to when is poor wife had it, so I must be lying!!

But I should have expected a comment like that as his son f--ked off because he couldn't cope with me and PND!

I think there is a vast difference between being stroppy/bitchy etc etc and having PND, but thats your opinion.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 22/02/2010 22:29

Daftpunk - I don't think you are being dismissive of my illness, but I do think you are being dismissive of my experience when I tell you that being on the internet does help me at this point in time. It provides a connection to the outside world that I would otherwise struggle to make.

I am sure that, as I get better, I will need it less and less - but maybe I will need someone like you to point out when I have reached that point, and give me a kick up the bum-- gentle push in the right direction!

Baskingseals - thankyou very much for saying that - I need to accept that I have been the best mother I could be - and the boys seem to have survived the experience ok - they are doing well at school, and you are right - they don't accuse me of insufficient finger painting or blighting their lives by lack of biscuit making - I just need to convince myself of that!

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 22/02/2010 22:31

Daftpunk - I've just thought of another way that mumsnet helps me (sorry ). Writing down what has happened to me, and how it has made me feel has helped me see things more clearly, as have the responses from other people. I could get the first by writing a journal, but not the second.

Must go - supper is ready and I am hungry!

Lucyellensmumma · 22/02/2010 22:35

oh moondog, you are so compassionate

Lucyellensmumma · 22/02/2010 22:41

Daftpunk - i wouldnt be here now if it wasn't for the support i received on MN and i seem to remember that you, despite being a rotton ol biatch, were one of those to give me that support so how can u post that mnet is bad for people with depression!!!

heckythump · 22/02/2010 22:46

LMAO. Your concepts are old fashioned. Like you Moondog

Fortunately, women no longer have to have a stiff upper lip. They can get treatment for known medical conditions instead. What a bore, eh?

LeQueen · 22/02/2010 22:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thumbwitch · 23/02/2010 05:45

I have found MN to be invaluable in helping me avoid/cope with the depressed feelings I have had since moving to Australia last year. It has helped reduce the feelings of isolation, people I "know" on here have helped me when I've been feeling like shit and wishing I'd never come. Afaik I do not have actual depression but I have periods of days on end when I can barely bring myself to be civil to DH or smile or talk to anyone - MN helps me through that.

So stick your narrow opinions back in their tiny box DP - you only have your experience to go on and it isn't large enough.

PeachyPeachyEverPreachy · 23/02/2010 09:15

shellingpeas what you are describing as not clinical depression is indeed reactive depression (the loss thing, not waking up feeling a bit grumpy!)

That's the variant I ahve bouts of

I certainly don't see it as quite as life affecting as DH's clinical depression which is now under control, but it is certainly severe enough to affect life badly, mine is a reaction to my children's SN- it flares when that flares, it is supposedly linked to bereavement and the GP describes it as 'pretty normal in the circs'- well that's as maybe but if you are so low you are struggling to enjoy life it is still a bad thing, we only get one life after all and if we spend it in a fug it doesn't matter why we are there, only that our lives are slipping past.

Caring for dh when he was so very ill was a terrifying thing- and to an extent I think dp is right that internet use worsens it, sadly thats what he has to do to make money and qualify (won't be so much after) and I can see his mood alter after a heavy stretch, ATM he has work (internet based) and a CAD topic, so he's on 6 hours a day and yes seems a bit shaky. I donb't think it's particularly linked to reactive though, and that IMO is the variant where peer support is most usaeful to pull you back out, or give you the ladder to climb to coping level.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 23/02/2010 09:20

Possibly, though, it is different using the internet for work than using it as a source of support/contact etc?

cory · 23/02/2010 09:23

Even if reactive depression say after a bereavement is only a natural part of life- if it gets to the point where other people are suffering from it, wouldn't it be better to get help? What is so good about not getting help?

From what I see around me, treatment doesn't just consist of unenaged GPs writing out more and more prescription drugs: there's counselling, various therapies etc etc.

The alternative to counselling would have been ds's friend being left to struggle with his bereavement until he ended up seriously injuring or even killing somebody (he knocked ds out cold one day). I just don't see the advantage.

PeachyPeachyEverPreachy · 23/02/2010 09:24

I know MD will know all this from work but others such as DP may not- the DSM-IV (and also ICD-10) is what defines medical conditions today and is being updates atm although I only know what it says about ASD not psych illnesses. 'Postpartum depression is defined by the DSM-IV as the onset of depressive symptoms within 4 weeks of childbirth. Symptoms are very similar to major depression, and can also include fluctuations in mood, preoccupation with infant well-being, as well as at times just the opposite, complete disinterest in the infant which, if prolonged, may result in failure to thrive syndrome. Although the DSM-IV suggests rigid guidelines in terms of time periods where this diagnosis should or should not be made, it is imperative to note that in medicine, as well as psychiatry and psychology, there is leeway. Subsequently, at 4 weeks and 2 days, if the mother comes down with depressive symptoms, this diagnosis still should be made.

Infantcide, where children are killed by their mother, is most often associated with postpartum psychotic episodes that are usually characterized by hallucinations. These are usually auditory command hallucinations directing the mother to kill the infant. There can be delusions that the child may be possessed. Statistics for psychotic breaches with postpartum depression range anywhere from 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000, as per the DSM-IV.

Once a woman has had a postpartum episode, the risk of occurrence for future deliveries is approximately a 30-50% increase.

Other symptomatology may include anxiety attacks, panic attacks, fear of being alone with the infant, and complete disinterest. This is not to be confused with the ?baby blues,? which does affect up to approximately 70% of women during the first 10-14 days postpartum. This is transient, and usually does not impair functioning.

It is not uncommon for the healthiest of mother to experience fear and anxiety with the birth of a child. Common fears that are not often voiced may relate to ability to raise a child successfully, questioning whether she will do a ?better job or worse job? than her own mother, fears regarding possible health issues that could develop in her child, and ability to care for a child in the event that occurs, fear regarding ability to maintain her relationship with her significant other (?Will I still be a good wife?). All of these feelings and questions are normal, and only become ?abnormal? when they impact daily routines and/or involve risky caretaker behavior.
'

So it does differentiate between normal adjustment fears and clinical symptomology.

daftpunk · 23/02/2010 09:24

Peachy;

Have you got 5 minutes...?

PeachyPeachyEverPreachy · 23/02/2010 09:29

SDTG would depend on why its an issue, if you're not getting social contact outside ofn it then maybe still a problem? If you're at home all day and the contact with rl humans is replaced by a screen it may well be an equal issue, you'd have to do lots of research to understand the whys and wherefores, I think it would be an incredibly hard thing to pull paprt- correlation from causality ion this case. I use the forum here becuase the thing that triggered my problems (very minor btw on the whole)m limits what else I can do; IMO blaming forum usage would miss the point entirely- a lack of access to SN respite and similar. My experience of people in sits where internet usage has become a problem at a very severe level, and then only 3 people I can recall (been a while since I worked) is that you could pretty easily identifyu what they were escaping from within hours of meeting them,,the net usage was perhaps delaying them forming appropriate coping startegies but not causing the initial problem.

Cory you'd think so yes.

PeachyPeachyEverPreachy · 23/02/2010 09:29

DP Just about, got to whip ds1 over to the dentist