to think that the concept of post natal depression is overused?

[moondog]

HOW COME WOMEN HAVE TO HAVE A LABEL (sorry) for so many things?

PMS
AND
PND
Menopausal
OCD
Passive/Aggressive

It seems that the concept of being low/cross/nasty/bitchy/tired/worn out is positively old fashined.

Tis ok MOONDOG I found the thread (was called a motivaider)

MOONDOG- are you OK? Are you feeling low? Even bright career women who are speech and language theraphists can suffer mental illness.

Please don't try to handle this on your own. I made that mistake 8 years ago and ended up on anti-pschcotic medication. I was damm lucky that I was not hospitalised. Serious postnatal illness can diliberate you and it can take months to recover. However most women do make an excellent recovery with proper medical help.

Having babies does send the brain chemistry up the wall even in the healthiest of mums. We fall in love with these demanding creatures that wake us up four times a night and produce the most attrious nappies.

I do think that PND is over diagnosed and maybe you are partly right. The wording of your thread does not help you.

I think telling people "you have depression, it's an illness" is not remotely helpful in the vast majority of cases. If you read SpookyCharlottes post her " depression" was so much more than about hormones or chemicals or whatever the drug companies believe are responsible for making people distressed.
To ignore the very real and difficult life events people have had to endure does no one any favours.
Sure medication can help in some cases, but it should be one of many treatments not the only one.

And yes, it is much easier to blame this all on a biochemical imbalance than to look at all the other reasons like poverty,abuse,traumatised childhoods etc, which would be very very costly to try and remedy.
I see more and more people coming through our service who are in such great emotional distress and just telling them they have an "illness" ignores their whole existence up until that point IMO

This book is brilliant

www.amazon.co.uk/Brilliant-Cognitive-Behavioural-Therapy-Improve/dp/0273724908

It is an alternative to anti depressants or waiting for a theraphist.

Why the anger Moondog? Why does it wind you up so much?

I think there are some people that get PND very badly indeed, not good, terrible thing

I also think there are people that struggle with the change, sleep deprivations, no sleep, lack of sleep, broken sleep (how many ways..) and the general car crash trauma and get so tired, and rundown that they get diagnosed as PND, maybe wrongly?

Whilst category 2 are very valid, I think they shadow how serious PND can be when it really happens

Look at the people that get hospitalised, and god forbid, harm their kids. Look at what happened to poor Britney, classic PND IMO

you cant conmpate that too PMT can you?

'The thing is that it's really easy to be diagnosed with depression and be described anti deprescents when actually you might just be going through a hard time.
'

Not always it isn't, no

I went to the GP about a month after ds3's dx to say I couldn't cope, wasn't sleeping and worn down. He wouldn't give me AD's, said it was a normal reaction to 2 dx's in a year, just refered me to a Counsellor. Of course, when the referral came through a year later (!) it was on a day when I had no childcare available, so was absolutely completely useless.

Recent events had led me to relaise just how down I still am, and I am going to go back and ask for AD's but I should have been allowed them when I first asked, this may all have gone away since then.

DH is on them indefinitely now after being persuaded to break from them a few times and then needing to back on, his was a case of aprticularly severe life threatening depression but he still has to have all the checks, and it isn't an easy option, the side effects were horrendous at first, and declaring them on med forms for jobs is a clear 'don't bother hiring me' flag.

OCD is a severe mental illness that has cost my MIL her DH, a son and her Grandkids becuase she can't sope with having them near her; and I actual;ly know someoone who tried to take an overdose under the effects of PMS.

They're real and whilst not everyone has the severe end, 'doing down' the dx in itself does not help those that do in the least.

Moondog,

I don't really understand what you are trying to get to.

• So PND, PMS etc... are 'illnesses' that exists but too many people are labelled with them, most of them unduly in your opinion.
• 'Tlaking' therapies etc... are not use at all.
• Too many people are taking ADs whenn actually they don't really need it. They are just a bit 'low'.

So a few questions to you : what do you think these people who are feeling not well in themselves should do? What sort of help can you give them (because if they go to see their GP it's beacuse they do need help) ?

porca - I don't agree about PMT, I imagine severe PMT could be very disabling. When on the progestogen only pill I had appalling PMT, which was IMO on a par with clinical depression -something which I have had an official DX for previously, I would feel plunged into an abyss of utter hopelessness.

I must admit I am still a little puzzled about the point Moondog was trying to make - whether it's about diagnoses being overused by medical professionals or in self-diagnosis or about semi-flippant comments. Belgo - I think I started off the cleaning/OCD conversation with Moondog - I was giving it as an example of a flippant comment - so I don't think Moondog meant that OCD is as simple as being a keen cleaner.

Also the term PND is often used to describe the gap between functioning well and purperal psychosis: worked with a fair few owmen in that gap in my last job and it is useful, better get in early with (a range of) interventions that just dismiss or wait until things deteriortae, amrriages fail (as marriages with extra stress can do) or whatever.

better for all society in fact.

And re the wording of the post.... if it had said tired / worn out / low i'd see scope for a level of agreement: inclusion of nasty and bitchy is unfair to those with genuine disorders.

Why are there so many depressed women on mumsnet ?...I have noticed this over the months,...every other poster seems to be suffering from something..

Maybe it's spending too much time on the internet..?

yabu - giving it a name helps other people understand that there is a problem that is not just an issue for a couple of days. I dont dispute that there are sadly many people (men and women) who will flippantly over use genuine conditions / issues to the point of cliche. Get angry but direct it at the malingerers and self absorbed.

Tiredlady, saying someone has depression, it is an illness does not mean the same as simply saying it is a chemical imbalance.

Using asthma attacks as an analogy:

My Dad smoked when I was a child.
I have asthma.
Damp triggers my asthma.

So something in my life as a child probably contributed to me having asthma. There are triggers that I can avoid in order to avoid having an asthma attack. By avoiding triggers I will reduce my need for medication.

None of that changes the fact that asthma is a medical condition.

The same is true of depression. Of course there are contributing social factors - by saying it is a medical condition nobody is denying that those factors exist.

DP perhaps, or maybe people with depression are finding it easier to access the net, or maybe the people who use MN regulalrly are the highest risk categories- lots of sahm, new parents, carers etc

Most likely a mix tbh.

Milly is right

DH has a chemical form of depression, lifelong

My and those of a great many other people who are acrers is a reactionary form- different inorigin, symptomology and indeed optimum treatment

It's an overview dx rather than a concise one

Not for me, daftpunk - it's due to being bullied when I was a teenager (when the internet hadn't been dreamt of, let alone invented) to the point of being suicidal, and having my parents ignore my plea for help, leaving me feeling that no-one would listen to me or help me - so I went on being bullied throughout senior school. It is no exageration to say that this has blighted the rest of my life.

I believe it predisposed me towards getting PND - that, plus the fact that I never managed to breastfeed successfully, so I felt like a total failure as a mother - unable to feed her own babies, not able to do the things other mums were doing, worrying that my boys were suffering because of me - wondering if they'd all be better off without me.

My marriage has suffered - dh has to pick up a helluva lot of slack round here, because there is only so much I can cope with; and is tired and stressed from work, has to cope with a wife whose mood is always low, and who has zero sex drive. If I were dead, he could find someone who'd be a proper wife to him and a proper mother to his sons.

I believe I've failed the boys - I should have read with them more, done more crafts and art, done more jigsaws, played more games, done baking with them - I did do these things, but not enough, in bleak remembrance.

I find it very hard to get out of the house and meet people - I don't see why anyone should want to talk to me or be my friend, and mumsnet is literally a lifeline - people here will talk to me. So no, it's not too much time on the internet for me.

Peachy;

I think people with depression need to get out more, interact with people in RL...I know MN is a great support to lots of people, but sometimes you can get so drawn into a reality world that it gets even harder to pull yourself out of depression...does that make sense..?

And tiredlady - you are absolutely right - antidepressants shouldn't be the only answer. A woman with PND may need them in the short term (maybe medium term) but should also be getting support (perhaps from another woman who has had PND, as another poster recommended) so that she can keep going until the PND lifts.

Someone with depression may well need the antidepressants to enable them to function at all - I am on a pretty high dose of Citalopram, and still find it hard to do the basics - God alone knows what I'd be like without the tablets. But it is also vital that they get other help and support, to enable them to find the root cause of the depression and tackle it. I am getting group psychotherapy, but I think I am lucky - I don't know how many health authorities offer long term therapy like this.

I hope that the antidepressants keep me going long enough for the group therapy to sort it out properly. One day, I will be at peace with myself, able to enjoy life, and not measuring out my life one tablet at a time. 'Til then, I need the tablets.

Daftpunk - I have to say it again - the depression makes it very difficult indeed for me to get out in r/l and meet people. I am not staying at home alone for the fun of it, or because I am lazy - it is a real struggle to find the energy and motivation to go out to the things I do regularly (choir, art class, therapy).

Well PND was very real to me, and went beyond just feeling sad and angry it was deep within. I cannot begin to tell you on here how I felt. Lables are not all bad, it is good to have a lable than as someone has said on here, it can help identify whats wrong and how to move on from that and lead a near normal life. I have read about people who are suffering from illness that they dont know what it is, when it is told that they are suffering from a particular illness they tend to feel happy and relieved that there is a name for it and that they can move on as it can be treated.

SDTG....

So does talking with strangers help..?

What do you see yourself doing in 2 yrs time...5 yrs time....still posting on MN..?

because at some stage you will have to let go of MN...and any other site you use.

daftpunk, that's probably because it a place where they feel safe to say how they feel.

I've had PND but, as a lot of other women, I didn't say anything. I thought I was supposed to cope with it. Then I ask for some help and the HV let me down. The effect on me was bad (I mean I was close ot self harm) but it was worse on dc1 who was badly affected by it.

When anyone say to a woman who is struggling with motherhood to get a grip, that what she is struggling with is part of the game is one thing (Not very empathic or helpfull butI could live with that). But then what about the child? Is that fair on that baby to put him/her through a very difficult time, perhaps leaving some scars that will stay with him/her as an adult (I'm taking the psychologist point of view there) on the bais that 'mummy wasn't so bad and was able to deal with it' on the surface

Yes talking to starngers help (just like talking to a counsellor help - afterall before the first meeting, she/he was a stranger)
Also having the annonimity (sp?) because you can then say thing you wouldn't say in RL.

Talking to strangers makes me feel as if I am not utterly alone in the world, as if I am having some form of interaction with people, as if there are people out there who find what I have to say interesting.

Two years from now, I hope to be coming to the end of therapy and off antidepressants. I'd like to be painting more, doing more knitting and sewing, taking pride in myself and my house instead of feeling like a total failure.

Mumsnet isn't the centre of my life, but it is a lifeline. I am sure that, in years to come, it will stop being a lifeline, and start being an interest, somewhere I come to offer what support and information I can, to share the odd joke and to see who's being unreasonable. It will be fun but no more important than most things in my life, and far less important than many.

I am sure you didn't mean me to feel under attack, and a failure because I talk to strangers on the net and can't 'let go' of mumsnet, but that's how it made me feel.

lolol...it was ok, just leave it at that..

StayingDavidTennantsGirl, have you looked into diet and whether that might be one factor that could help?