to want to slap the girl on 'one born every minute'?

[HoopsIsGettingMassive]

in the title really, she is really making a meal of it!!

Certainly Otter a nice big fluffy one for wrapping around to keep warm - also handy for cornering quickly.

I have to admit I like the threads where the OP has fuck all idea what they are talking about and then when they are told they are being unreasonable get all shouty and start insisting that it is the rest of the planet that has it wrong. Excellent time waster.

Oh no hoops I don't like biscuits

(AIBU to dislike biscuits?)- can offer a Welshcake instead? Am trying recipes prior to the Eisteddfodd Welshcake comp,seif immigrants could win it (I did decide the hybrid Anglo-Welsh cake with bramleys was a bit too avant garde sadly for the school, delicious though).

I wouldn't want to be glad to be the person who'd never given birth but decreed that someone else wasn't doing it properly, but each to their own hoops.

AIBU to waffle?

and of course AIBU to want self limiting hair growth as part of Morloth's evolutionary overhhaulasmine neds cutting three weekly and I never have time?

Sorry peachy I think letting go of the fur was a mistake as well. But you can have lovely silky fur if you like.

Basically I think cats got it right and we bounced up the wrong branch of the evolutionary tree.

Of course we would have to retain opposable thumbs, those biscuits don't bake themselves.

Or perhaps like cats we could keep some hairless monkey types about to open/cook things?

Isn't that what kidsare for Morloth?

yes ghouls each to their own, I didn't say she wasn't doing it properly, my point was she could have made it a bit easier on herself, people were trying to help her but she wasn't listening to anyone!!

Sorry you're right, your point was that you wanted to slap her. Even more reason to be glad I'm not you!

I thought so Peachy but he can't work the oven yet.

Hoops it an be really ahrd to tell when someone is listening in labour,lots of women (me included) go right intothemselvesand only do what they need to cope. I was absolutely aware of everything going on around meabut certainly the MWs etc didn't know that- they were very surprised when I came out of it to answer a question about antibody status.

It'sactually a very good way of creating your own space wherever youa re, totally instinctive,but it can look apparently as if you are deliberately ignoring when in fact youa rejust cutting right back on extraneous input.

Morloth, ds2wants to be a chef but tbh even if he gets 6Michelin stars I willalways remember his earliest efforts and be inclined to the nearest greasy spoon LOL

Quite apart from the pain question with labour is the intensity of it all.

How many times on the childbirth topic do you see people asking whether feeling "weird" is an indicator of labour? I felt very very weird before and during labour.

It felt like everything was suddenly switched "on" and that in itself was something I had to deal with.

Yup, sensory hyper or hypo stimulation, depending on how your brain is wired.

I know a bit about that from the effects it has on the boy's SN and absolutely it doesseem to be a common theme. And aswith SN< which you are seemswith what weknow ATM to be random.

I think it is probably another evolutionary thing, you are very very vulnerable in labour, can't get up and run away or really put up much of a defence. So your senses are put higher so that you can respond to danger earlier.

Grabs peachy's grant money and runs off.

I just watched this on 4oD; from the descriptions on here, I was expecting a lot worse.

Yes, Sam could've made things easier for herself. It's easy to sit here, not in agonising pain, and rationally think about how much easier she'd've found it if she breathed properly etc. Being quite so rational and sensible while in a lot of pain is not so simple.

I didn't think her mum was horrible either. I think she was just trying to get Sam to calm down and concentrate on helping herself. She needed to.

I felt terrible for Joy. Sitting around for days and day waiting for something to happen while heavily pregnant in an overheated NHS hospital where they won't even feed you regularly would be dreadful. I'd've been at least as grumpy. In fact, the hospital insisted that I stay in overnight with DS2 (so that a paed could check him over in the morning) and I was extremely grumpy. He never actually got to see one though.

I was quite annoyed by the narrative the programme makers put on to it about younger and older mothers. It's over-simplistic and lazy stereotyping. Sam didn't necessarily cope poorly because she was young; she coped poorly because she was ill-prepared, poorly supported and in a lot of pain. Surely someone could have shown her how to get some benefit out of the gas and air.

'Expat you know what evolution really fucked up? Knees, ever seen the inside of a human knee? It is ridiculously over-complicated and all so we can walk upright. The surprise isn't when people's knees stop working, it is that they work at all, ever.'

Yes, Morloth. I have seen the inside of both my knees, when they were majorly messed up, too.

Of course, the other problem with knees in females is the pelvis means the femur is at such a wonky angle!

It's bizzare.

" didn't say she wasn't doing it properly, my point was she could have made it a bit easier on herself, people were trying to help her but she wasn't listening to anyone!!"

And you're still missing the point Hoops

The point is that when any human being in is dreadful pain and feeling scared and out of control they can act in ways that can surprise them.

Sometimes women in labour are unable to listen to people, take on board instructions or act in a rational manner. It's all part of it. It might not be part of it for some women but for others it is.

You keep banging on about what this girl should have done when you actually know fuck all about it because although you might have read a lot about it, you haven't been there yourself yet. And even when you have been there you will still never ever know what that girl experienced so ergo you have no right to say what she should or shouldn't have done.

You only had to look at the girl once she'd had her epidural to see that she was an entirely normal, rational person once she was relatively pain-free. It's not her fault how she reacted. She did what she needed to do in the circumstances. She doesn't deserve preachy, smug women (including some like you who've never even experienced labour) passing judgement on her.

Well said Genevieve. I was lucky emough to have a relativey pain free and certainly rapid labour (didn't even get a chance to have pain relief as DD was born 15 minutes after we got into hospital - we didn't realise my waters had gone as they went in the bath) but I would certainly never think that someone else failed to have the same experience as me simply because they weren't prepared enough. I wasn't prepared at all for labour - in fact I was in total denial about the whole business pretty much until she was crowning ! So being prepared certainly didn't achieve an easy labour for me. We didn't even go to antenatal classes.

This thread really does show MN at its very worst

what is SN?

How can you listen to your body if you dont know what you are listening for?

Poor girl didnt have a bloody clue. Its unlikely she got more than a few hours worth of parentcraft classes if any at all. Not everyone can afford the £££££ needed for hypnobirthing and NCT classes. The NHS ones are so limited compared to when I had my DD18 years ago.

And who says dilating to 2cm isnt painful? It may not be to some women during some labours but to others the early stages of labour bloody hurt like buggery.

I am still really suprised that anyone who has been through labour could be so judgemental. As for those who have never done it - brass neck and we'll see are phrases that spring to mind.

Hear hear pregnantpeppa!

I can't quite believe what I'm reading on this thread tbh.

"My third child was OP and they wanted to get the foreceps out, I refused and out she came in her own good time, because I wasn't upset or drugged up to the eyeballs, wasn't in pain and the baby wasn't distressed I was able to give the baby longer to sort herself out. Maybe that might have been the case for you too, we'll never know." Well, you know what, I gave birth naturally to an OP baby after pushing for 3 and a half hours with nothing but G&A. And actually I was in pain - agonising pain for my entire labour - there was no let up between contractions the whole way through and the pain at the end was the same as the pain at the start. I guess that makes me even braver than MillyMollyMoo! Great result eh? How clever am I?

You know what, no no no. Three and a half years on I am still suffering from it. I was crying my eyes out in the midwives room yesterday as the memories of that day came flooding back. I happened to react to the pain of my labour by withdrawing - I certainly had no energy left to fight for pain relief when I was refused it because I was only 2cm dilated. Consequently nobody realised how much pain I was in. When I did scream - because I was truly truly terrified about how I was going to cope when real labour kicked in - I was finally taken seriously.

My labour happened to turn out well in the end with a natural delivery. I don't kid myself that was anything at all to do with me. Yes my birth plan stated a preference for no intervention, but I would have done anything, anything to get that baby out by that point. What got me there in the end was a wonderful midwife. I wouldn't dream of preaching to another woman who ended up with an instrumental delivery or a C section in the same circumstances.

Preparation? - bollocks

Yes, you can do your best to be prepared but I think that most resonable people here will acknowledge that this process can totally floor you, take you by surprise, catch you off guard and make you react in ways that can and will surprise you.

You never know, even Hoops herself may discover that in a few weeks time.

I've a feeling she might just keep it to herself if it does though

Like Joy, I was in hospital for three days and two nights before I finally went into established labour.

I was very hot, unable to get much sleep due to one of the girls on the ante-natal ward sscreaming, sobbing and moaning continually through the night (with no help for any of us from any of the mw's), contracting every now and then, not allowed to have dh with me overnight, told twice that I had a spot in delivery ward for the drip, only for this to be cancelled as I was standing ready to go with my bags, both times, put on a trace every two hours, had consultants barge in and try to talk to me during contractions without even saying who they were.

Did I mention that my waters had broken three days previously and they kept going on about the dangerous risks of infection, which they alternated with going on about how busy they were and how there was no room for me in delivery suite?

I think Joy was fine