To expect maternity ward to respect my wishes?

[victoriascrumptious]

I'm a bit fucked off at the moment. I was admitted into the antinatal ward the other day for some checks. I brought my handheld notes with me (as you do).
Basically the notes contain a birthplan template which you are supposed to fill in. Mine contains basic instructions for yes I want to b/f, yes I want vitamin K, yes I am open minded about drugs-would like to see how it goes. Nothing unsual about that

The one point of contention is that there is a question as to whether you want student midwives in the room-so I said yes but only if they are female. I don't want a male midwife present at the birth, I don't want a male midwife or consultant doing internal checks.

It would appear that there is a male midwife on the ward who I am sure does an excellent job. However it seems some of the female midwifes were grousing about what I had written as I heard them bitching as I walked past.

I don't really give a fuck if men want to be midwives however out of personal choice I don't want one present at my childs birth. Men stress me out on a very primal level for reasons I wont bore you with. If I was to have a cx they can invite the whole of the local rugby team into my room if they wish-but I dont want a man there when I am trying to dilate FFS!

When I was on the ward they made a pmy blood pressure/chat to me etc(this was after I had heard them bitching)so they are clearly trying to make some sort of political point as there were about 4 other female mw's in the staff room drinking tea. I didnt care about being seen by him then as I wasnt in active labout but I am really really annoyed that if this has happened once they are going to ignore my requests when I am actually in labour.

This has upset me so much I am now thinking of VBACing at home as I really dont want a fight on my hands/bad feeling in the room when I am trying to give birth.

AIBN? Am I being nuts?

You're NOT being uneasonable!! I entirely understand how you feel.

Had female midwife during labour but Head Midwife on postnatal ward was male and he wouldn't listen to me, was extremely rude and dismissive (in typical male, I'm always right fashion) and made me feel very very scared and uncomfortable.

And to "teach me a lesson" for daring to questions some of his very very dubious and entirely wrong advice (ie when breastfeeding put a hat on the baby... Soooo incorrect), left me overnight without changing my catherter bag (result was me sitting in my own wee all night - nice) and no help lifting my dd to be fed or changed despite me being in the supposed "intensive care" following long labour and emergency c section.

My DD's first night was hell on earth and I was so scared because no one came when I pressed the buzzer, my catherter bag was snarled around the bed so I was trapped and couldn't move.

So so scary and all because of a male midwife.

You stick to your guns! I bet if you had said it was for religious reasons, there'd be no argument at all!!

Posie, The OP does not have to explain her reasons either on this board or too the hospital. It is not up to us or the HCP to judge whether her objection is acceptable or not. If she feels this strongly that she does not want a male midwife then that is her right.

BTW before I am told I am sexist...I did have a male midwife for care after DS arrived and he said straight away that he could get a woman midwife if I wanted. I didn't care, he was very supportive and helpful midwife and if I am forced into hospital next time, I would be very happen to have his support in labour.

very happen happy

yanbu, it's your choice and you have personal reasons for making this choice, which should berespected.

If things go a bit pear shaped though I don't think you can expect no males to be present, it's whoevers around at the time I'm afraid e.g. male paediatrician etc.

When dd was born the room was full of women and men! Can't even remember who was who but they all needed to be there.

I work in mental health and patients sometimes request a certain gender of key worker/therapist/named nurse. One Mum of a child I worked with (work in CAMHS) just couldn't cope with men being involved in her care, it made her voices become very nasty and intolerable and so had a female care team. We get referrals asking for a certain gender of therapist and we try to respect that. It's difficult when a male is requested as there's only one male staff member on a tem of 15 but we try to do our best.

I think YABU, and unrealistic. Childbirth is notoriously one of the most undignified things women can go through, and if anything goes even slightly awry the concern should be the health of your child. I think the NHS have enough to deal with, without this.

Lets face noone feels very comfortable in stirrups with their vag to the world, but TBH when its childbirth, you dont even care. I had a male (rather moody, but it was 4 am) obs sowing me for what seemd like 30 mins, and at the stage I did not give a shit.

Childbirth is about getting a baby out safe, and whilst I do have sympathy, I think its in your benenfit to try and stop thinking of your bits as "sexual" as focus on the fact that they are a canal that the baby must traverse.

Plus this request will be null and void if for any reason you need surgeon/ob gyn or aneasethist and the only one on shift is male anyway

Of course you aren't being unreasonable.

You will be feeling very vulnerable and should be put at ease and if this means no men in the room, then that's how it should be - you don't need to be more stressed worrying if they are going to respect your decision.

They were rude & disrespectful and tbh I wouldn't want to give birth there if it could be avoided - can you go elsewhere?

The senior should be informed about their behaviour, if they can't behave professionally they should be looking for other jobs.

You don't have to explain your reason here or at the hospital.

[This comes from an oddball who would rather have a male than a female - but so long as they are nice/gentle/caring am not too fussed]

If the OP is not comfortable with it, she's not comfortable with it. Rational or not.

And every effort should be made to ensure a labouring woman is a comfortable as possible?

IMO the other midwifes were being unprofessional IF indeed they were bitching about it (which we and the OP will really never know)

YANBU, except if you let the whole thing escalate in any way, or if you refuse treatment from male practitioners in an emergency.

You are not unreasonable to request females only during labour.
But you were not in labour, you were just having your BP checked, so you can't really say that maternity ward didn't respect your wishes, can you?
So, get over it, you're getting upset over nothing.

There are plenty of bullying midwives out there.

I encountered a nasty one during antenatal appointments. Worst luck, when I had my baby she was covering the post-natal side.

Me and my dc were re-adnitted the day after being discharged were put next to the midwives station.

I heard her and another sit there bitching about someone for an hour whilst the buzzer was constantly going off, and they ignored it.

well said octopusinabox

I can't understand the attitude of some posters who seem to have missed a lot of what has been said in the first post and subsequent posts by the OP.

Firstly OP, it is your choice as to whether you feel comfortable with a male mw. Personally it wouldn't have bothered me at all, but I understand some women do, for whatever reason, have concerns.

BUT, to request no male consultant for internals is being very unreasonable. There will be times when the only consultant/ SHO/ registrar on call is male. Generally a doctor is called to assist if there is a problem during labour. In this case you should put your reservations to one side and understand that the health and welfare of you and your baby is more important. Please do not allow your worries to put you or your baby at risk.

FWIW, I was a high risk labour and my registrar was male. Yes he did my internals, but I went on to deliver a very healthy and happy baby and I couldn't have asked for better care.

I would have no problem with a male midwife. You have male doctors look everywhere so why worry about the midwife?

I think it's horrible that OP thinks they have him there as a 'political statement', you wouldn't say an overweight midwife was only there so they could tick a box would you?

The man wants to be a midwife... he's hardly there to get kicks looking at women giving birth is he?

It does not matter if everyone on this thread is happy to have a male midwife, it is irrelevent. The OP is not happy with one and her opinion is the only opinion that matters to her

When the OP said, ".... Men stress me out on a very primal level for reasons I wont bore you with....." - my understanding of this was that there is something traumatic in her past that has made her feel this way - if we knew she'd been sexually assaulted or abused or raped, would anyone be saying she was being unreasonable??

She is not simply expressing a preference, nor has she said that she thinks male midwives are any less competant, but from her OP it seems clear to me that it would be very traumatic for her to be attended by a male midwife whilst in labour.

What is upsetting her is that the other midwives on the ward bitched about her, and then (in her view) deliberately sent the male midwife to do her blood pressure - and she is worried that this means they will not respect her wishes when she is in labour. This attitude on the part of the midwives seems very unprofessional to me.

My advice to her would be to discuss this issue and her reasons for feeling this way with the senior midwife because, in fairness to them, it could look like a sexist attitude if they don't know that there is a deep and (I assume) traumatic reason for her not wanting a male midwife when in labour.

I also suggested she has a quiet word with the male midwife, and tells him what she has told us - if he is a sensitive and professional person, he will understand, and may well talk to the other midwives too, so they can see their attitude is unacceptable.

YANBU to be upset at the unpleasant and bitchy (female) midwives.

YABU to object to a male midwife doing your bp.

YANBU to raise this as a concern regarding your birth plan.

YABU to think male midwives are employed as a political statement.

Exactly how are they not respecting or ignoring your wishes?

Your birth plan says you don't want a male midwife when you are in labour or having internal checks. You weren't in labour and you weren't having internal checks. He took your blood pressure and had a chat - how does that go against your wishes when you yourself state that it didn't bother you???

You are being nuts

How were the female mws bitching about you?

(oh, and YANBU to request no male MWs at the birth BTW. I doubt you're the first to make that request.)

YANBU.

When i was in labour with dd and things started to get a bit hairy the mw told me a male student doctor was outside and was asking permission to come in and see the birth.

It took me completely by surprise how violently upset the thought of a man coming in to watch my baby possibly die made me. The mw saw how uncomfortable the suggestion made me and very quickly told me that I could say no and they'd send him away so I did.

I can't honestly say if a female doctor would have elicited a yes... but tbh i think it's very possible, it was mostly the fact that he was male that made me feel so deeply uncomfortable.

I can't explain it, nor do i apologise for it, I get completely out of it in the end stages of labour.... in order to manage without pain relief i enter a very zoned out state and i find in that state alot of my emotions are more primal and instinctive, I can just about tolerate dp in the room but tbh i prefer he doesn't touch me too much, there's no way i could tolerate another man there.

if we knew she'd been sexually assaulted or abused or raped, would anyone be saying she was being unreasonable??

No, I would not. My response was an instinctive "YABU" (and we are so fast to answer here!) but if this was the reason, def not BU, as per usual we dont have enough background......so some answers may upset OP

Is it okay for my DH to insist upon only seeing male doctors? Or does he have to explain to someone why? Because whilst giving birth is a wonderful thing and very unique it does not deserve special dispensation for prejudice unless there is very good reason. And to iobject to someone on the basis of gender has to have a very very good reason and needs to be explained. Not here but to someone who can take appropriate action.

YANBU in my opinion. Personally, having had 2 dcs, I wouldn't even notice who was in the room when giving birth so personally I wouldn't object to a male midwife. however, I think it is personal choice and your wishes should be respected. At our GP surgery you can request a female GP for any appointment, so peopel must do it a lot and presumably for much less intimate matters than giving birth. I'm sure plenty of women make similar requests to you, the midwives on duty were being immature and unprofessional, and I am on your behalf that you are now less relaxed about your birth.
FWIW I had homebirths and would recommend!

What about male practice nurses? Do you think they shouldn't be allowed in this job as there would only be the one at your GP surgery and they would have to do your smear test?

OP If you don't want a male midwife then that is fine.

I can't believe how insensitive some of the mumsnetters are. It is your birth not theirs. Stick to what you want.

Don't feel guilty about all this sexism nonsense being thrown around.