to think getting a private tutor for a four year old is insane?

[mslucy]

I am rarely shocked but heard today that an old friend of mine is thinking of getting a private tutor for her son, who is one day older than DS.

She is a very successful lawyer and only sees her kids at the weekend.

She is already forking out £££s on private school fees, so why the feck she needs a tutor is beyond me.

Shocked and saddened. Want to kidnap her poor ds and take him home to our slightly haphazard household so he can hang out in the park with his mates, watch TV, play video games, read stories, chat to his parents, go to school cake sales and all the other things normal four year olds do.

Has anyone else heard of anything like this?

You can do all those things and, if you enjoy them, you have a chance of enthusing your child too.

Not all parents enjoy or are good at all the skills they would like their children to acquire, though. Why not employ someone to play cards or board games with your child? I am lucky in that DSS2 will patiently play games with DD for hours - my tolerance for board games is quite limited!

Milly R I found your take on the middle class learning- through- play 'agenda' very interesting. I've never considered it in that way.

I think it boils down to the fact that parents can't be bothered to play Draughts 4 times in a row with a 4 yr old and so they would rather pay someone! The 4 yr old would rather have the parent's time-there is nothing more precious.

But, playing Devil's Advocate, if a parent has limited time with their child and has to choose what they do and the choice is something only they can do/something they're enthusiastic about vs playing draughts 4 times in a row which they don't have the patience/knack for and they could pay someone to play draughts, well isn't that as close as you get to having cake and eating it?

I don't mean to start a debate on why the parent's time is limited, BTW, that's not what I'm asking. Time is limited. Fact. Now what?

YABU. Ds is five and at a prep school, I need to spend about twenty minutes with him each day just reading, and practising nummbers etc..if the mum is working full time she wont be able to do this.

Prep schools do expect parents to support and reinforce learning at home (as do state schools) and is she hasnt got time to do this than there is nothing wrong with getting him someone who can. Maybe she is working all hours to cover fees (I have two part time jobs.) Afterall a good education along with love and time are one of the best gifts you can give to your children.

Oh no piscesmoon - my DD is more than happy to do educational activities with other people, be that her English tutor, her Arts & Crafts teacher, her brothers, her grandmother, an occasional evening babysitter! She gets quite bored with me, with whom she spends the vast majority of her life!

Piscesmoon you are coming across as very sanctimonious. Life is not some wonderful eutopia and people do what they feel they have to do or indeed what they want to do. As long as the children are happy why does it matter to you?

Maybe I am sanctimonious, I just feel strongly that children should have their childhood and freedom to play, work out things for themselves and lots of time to be bored and have to resort to their imagination.They shouldn't have parents worrying the whole time about their academic performance at 4 yrs.
It isn't a class thing either. My DH won a full scholarship to a highly selective, independent school when he was 11yrs. He didn't have a tutor, his parents had both left school at 15yrs, they just spent a lot of time with him when he was little playing games and reading stories to him etc. The sort of thing anyone can do. A parent's time and attention are far more important than money to a DC IMO.
It doesn't matter to me what other people do-other than it shows me a whole new growth area where I can be employed as a tutor for the under 5's-I had no idea that there was a call for it. If people are willing to pay me for it I am quite happy to take the money and keep my opinions to myself!!
I have to say that if I was the Head of a selective school I would avoid any DC who had had to be tutored at 4yrs.

Sounds like a bad attack of the Competitive Mums syndrome to me. I agree with you entirely, and understand your sympathy and concern for her son - but unfortunately these are as you know her choices, and it will be entirely down to her when the collateral damage (lack of parental contact/ only feeling valued for performing, loss of childhood etc) starts coming out in the child's teenage years. Just be grateful that your kids are having a balanced upbringing.

Well attempting to read with my son made things much much worse for us (not reading aloud to him, that was never an issue, but trying to get him to read to me). Because I had no idea how to do it, and after a day at work not the energy or patience to cope with his frustrations. I'm not a very good teacher at the best of times to be honest, and even dh who is very good at coaching couldn't manage to find a way to help ds. Neither of us were taught phonics, or had much of an idea of the mechanics of reading (and what we did think we knew was in any case wrong). The tutor's approach was totally different, and ds's response to her was totally different too. I attended all the sessions she had, and learned much that I didn't know before, and it was enough to get ds over the hurdle of "none of it makes sense". If he had had help much earlier perhaps he wouldn't have had to struggle so (I only found the tutor from suggestions on MN).

NB my cousins, brother, nephew and probably a few uncles and aunts all struggled with reading at school, and the boys all got very frustrated, and three of them had similar behavioural problems to my ds. I don't think that this is a recent issue, although I hope with the proper adoption of phonics it will be less of an issue in the future. Possibly the later start of school might have helped, but it's difficult to tell really.

I only make this point to say that there may be some very specific reasons where a trained tutor might make a huge amount of difference, and where a parent will almost certainly not have the skills to help.

The trained tutor may come in handy if they are at school and having difficulties with reading. At 4 yrs they are probably, quite simply, not ready and it could put them off. If they are ready they pick it up for themselves-regardless of your knowledge of phonics (if they are the type of DC suited to a highly selective school).

I do agree that hiring a tutor probably is necessary in some cases, like nooka's. I'm just creating a hypothetical, utopian situation where parents wouldn't have to worry about it until children are older. I think the worrying is unnecessary, considering it just doesn't happen in other countries. Einstein was a very late talker. If he was alive today his parents would have panicked, had him tutored and trained, and he'd have lost all interest in learning.

'There isn't anything that a tutor can do with a 4 yr old that a parent couldn't do if they simply spent time with their own child!'

There's plenty a qualified tutor can do with a4-year-old that a parent can't.

My child has dyspraxia and learning difficulties. So does DH.

He could spend all the time from now until the world ends with her, he can't help her to read the way a tutor can.

Im assuming he is tutored by the hour.

Does he not hang out in the park with his mates, watch TV, play video games, read stories, chat to his parents, go to school cake sales and all the other things normal four year olds do the rest of the time?

No, i think he may be locked in a padded cell somewhere claw, he needs rescuing from his horrible caring pushy parents.

A tutor doesn't need to teach a 4 yr old to read! If the 4 yr old is very bright they will pick it up for themselves, if not they can wait until they go to school. Reading isn't a race, no one can tell if an adult was reading at 3 yrs or 10 yrs! All the research shows that leaving formal education until 6/7 yrs is more beneficial to the DC.
A four yr old should be able to have time to just be. Have time to stand and stare, experiment and play without there being an agenda to everything! I expect the poor things are burnt out with parents who have to gear every opportunity to a learning experience and are worried that if they don't get into the 'right' infant school, they won't end up in the 'right' university. It is madness-maybe the 4 yr old isn't academic-why not wait and see what sort of DC you have and how they learn?
You do not need a tutor-give them a cardboard box, scissors and glue etc and leave them alone to create. Give them a selection of dressing up clothes and props and leave them alone. Let them make cakes and icing and leave them alone.
The selective schools will be looking for DCs who are imaginative, original and think for themselves-they need time and opportunity-not tutors.

'A tutor doesn't need to teach a 4 yr old to read! If the 4 yr old is very bright they will pick it up for themselves, if not they can wait until they go to school.'

I'm very glad you have bright children, pices. You don't know how fortunate and blessed you are, to be in a position to judge others, and other children, who aren't, who are in school and falling further and further behind due to their disabilities, who have already been held back to the maximum the law will allow.

My four-year-old, like her 6-year-old sister, can't use scissors or hold a pencil well. She, like her sister, has to have OT and help. The 6-year-old's condition is more severe, however, she still struggles with minimal personal care.

The 4-year-old in the OPs post might be the same.

We really have no idea and just assume it's because a) the mother works outside the home, how dare she! b) the reason for the tutor is that she's a pushy parent.

What a world to live in!

My first thought was that her child is SN.

Because that's teh world we live in.

And board games! LOL. Those are right up there with jigsaw puzzles. Life with 2 diagnosed dyspaxics who also have mulitple learning difficulties, one child who has been referred for further help and a baby! Well, we have the haphazard untidy house part of the equation! It's like living with a herd of elephants.

'Does he not hang out in the park with his mates, watch TV, play video games, read stories, chat to his parents, go to school cake sales and all the other things normal four year olds do the rest of the time?'

Oh, yes, I'm sure most 'normal' 4-year-old hang round their mates in the part, discussing Noam Chomsky theories in between cake sales and Baby Einstein video games and watching The Andrew Marr Show.

I know what's been bugging me about this - it's the assumption that because the mother pays for a private prep that this somehow equals a highly selective school and a bright DS to go with the highly successful mother.

Not necessarily the case.

We have no reason to believe that the child is being sent to a tutor because they are behind or because they are preparing for entrance to a selective school.

There are many reason why a child sees a tutor, and many different types of tutor. I doubt the parents want to tell the OP what the reason is.

'I'm very glad you have bright children, pices. You don't know how fortunate and blessed you are, to be in a position to judge others, and other children, who aren't, who are in school and falling further and further behind due to their disabilities, who have already been held back to the maximum the law will allow.'

At what point did I say this!!! My middle DS is dyslexic and learning to read was a long hard struggle and yes he needed extra help but he needed it when he was older than 4 yrs. He wasn't ready at 4 yrs to read-getting him a tutor and starting early wouldn't have helped. He was behind at school, very much so, but he was on an IEP and got help through school, I backed them up by helping and I would have considered a tutor if I thought it necessary but not at 4 years old.
DS is bright but it didn't show up until year 7, for example he was in the lower maths group all through primary school, I was assured it was the best place for him to feel confident,but he worked his way up the sets in secondary school. DS3 is very average-most DCs are.
It is the one time in their life they can be a child without a hidden agenda. Talk to them, read to them, give them paper etc and play games, go out, see friends-they will never have such freedom again! Enjoy your DC, the years fly past, don't bog them down with a tutor who can't do anything with a 4 yr old that you can't do yourself.

well, pisces, you've banged on and on as if you know exactly what is best for all 4-year-olds.

when in truth we don't know anything about the child in teh OP because, well, she heard all this secondhand anyhow.

what's good for one 4-year-old might not be good for the next.

live and let live.

OP asked for my opinion and I agree with her. I am now getting into trouble for it!

If you think it is a good way to spend money and wish to spend it that way that is your prerogative-I am not going to stop anyone! On the contrary, I can see it is a very lucrative opening for me.

I don't think that any 4 yr old needs a tutor, unless it is for very specialist help -for example speech therapy-because they are not performing in a way that an average 4 yr old should be.
I got the impression from OP that the friend was a high achiever and was expecting her DC to be a high achiever. She is already forking out school fees for a child who legally does not have to attend school. The school day, even if he was on a half day, is long for a DC of that age, he doesn't need more of the same on top IMO.
A DC may well benefit from a tutor later on, especially if they are falling behind. I do not think they need them at 4 yrs old. Unless you have absolutely pots of money, and no time, I would save it for later on when it would be of more use.

I accept that lots of you disagree and I don't expect you will change your minds. I am not changing mine - a 4yr old needs time, adult attention, boredom and opportunities to be creative and stories-you don't need to pay for a tutor to provide this.

Pisces, FWIW I agree with you on the whole. I agree that on the whole tutors aren't/shouldn't be necessary for four-year-olds. I didn't even send my children to school at all until I felt they were ready for it - and that wasn't in the September after they turned four. I felt that they were better off playing and learning at home (which, of course, begs many questions: as a SAHM, I had an awful lot of time to spend with them).

However, I still think the OP sounds judgy-panty and downright smug about her haphazard household. I also dislike the fact that she didn't even hear about the whole tutor thing directly from her 'friend', yet feels entitled to be 'shocked' (a rather strong word, to my mind) about it. There's something about the whole OP (the post, not the poster) that I find even more distasteful than I find the idea of tutors for small children. Plus I still can't get my head round the idea of sticking a 4-y-o in front of a computer game...