to think he should not be on incapacity benefit

[doodles31]

My ex has been off work for about 8 months now with depression and anxiety. I am dubious to the severity of his problem as he seems capable to do most things. If someone were severely depressed then would they be capable of going to Florida for 2 weeks (paid for by his parents) or aibu to even question it? To me, incapacitated means just that, how can you be capable of leaving your home/routine, getting on a plane, walking round disneyland going on rides for 2 weeks but not of working. I believe that he has given up on the idea of work because he knows that it wouldnt be worth it. If he worked he would have to pay csa money for his 4 children, quite frankly, I think hes trying to get away with not paying it, or have i entirely got the wrong idea of incapacity benefit and who/what its for?

doodles you really haven't got a clue about depression, nor do you appear to want to understand.

Why do you feel it's better to get it out on here, are the posters on MN not real people too, with real feelings?

sorry, sdtg, I actually wasn't having a go at you, I was voicing genuine questions that are in my head out loud which you could have answered without hostility. I have a curious nature. It wasnt nosiness, it was me wondering that if you had no choice (and when i say you, i dont mean you persay, i mean depressed people in general) so you answered my question in that you didnt have an absolute necessity to work. Im not jealous and bitter that you go to art class, I will admit I am jealous that I cannot.
I was asking the question about joining a gym again in a general way looking for an opinion...like is this something people think the nhs should do....actually not directing it at you or comparing it to art class. Nice of you to wish it on someone else...real nice. I have genuine questions and if you could have heard them as they sounded in my head then you probably wouldnt have jumped down my throat...sometimes things dont read the same as that are written though do they. I would like to know where, at what point I have said you could snap out of it or when have i said i dont believe you. When I talk about things please remember I have no opinion on you, I ammainly referring back to my ex.

I do have empathy, looking back on my post, I tried to read it as someone else may have done and it may have seemed i was on the attack of one person...honestly not, just typing out loud and like i say, it gets read in the wrong tone.I dont know why I say his children, hadnt thought about it?! I dont feel agrieved that I am supporting them itsmeolord, I do feel agrieved that sometimes I am so tired and on the edge and feel like I could do with a bloody good cry and some time off, and I feel (whether you lot think its fair or not) that if he were contributing even a little bit then I would not have to work so bloody hard and I wouldnt feel so close to melting point. I am sick of doing everything, to do with the children and then they go to him every month and they get to do all the fun stuff. I am bitter. I cant help it. You would be too.

doodles the nhs does offer gym membership to depressed people - well its free if you are on the right benefits and counselling. i think its in the nice guidelines. May well depend on the gp and the motivation of the patient.

And yeah I do see your point. I've come across a few people over the years who look suspiciously like they're working the system.

Sorry thats they offer counselling in any case.

thats good isnt it nellie, so does anyone on here suffering depression take advantage of the free membership and does it help?
Just to reiterate, I am trying to understand, thats why I ask so many questions (maybe I am insensitive) I read everything, think about it and then might come back a few days later with it worked out in my mind.
Its quite nice that someone sees my point, i mnot trying to attack everyone, my op was about one specific person!

OP I used to feel a bit like you. Then a close member of my family got very depressed (she had had a depression 'problem' for a while and had been on anti-depressants). She was just about coping, and then a number of quite negative things happened at work that tipped her over the edge. She wasn't sleeping (she had never slept well but had become a total insomniac) as she had completely blown the work problems out of perspective, and this then knocked on to her work performance causing more problems. A downward spiral IYSWIM.

She hasn't worked for a good few months since (has a doctors note). She just has no coping mechanism for it. She comes to visit me and the DCs for a day to keep her ind off things and to have some company, and goes to stay with her parents etc etc as she finds staying at home on her own (she's single) only makes her feel more depressed.

I can see why you are angry with your ex-P, but I think unless you understand what the triggers are for his depression, then YABU to say what you have said.

Doodles - even when I was going regularly to the gym (3 times a week) I was still just as depressed. A temporary blast of endorphins would do nothing to deal with the things in my past that have caused me to become depressed.

You may not have said that you don't believe me or that I could just snap out of it - or indeed that you believe the same of your ex, but your posts come across as very sceptical and disbelieving, and as if you think that there is a simple 'fix' for depression - like going to the gym.

And I can't take advantage of the free gym membership, as far as I know, because I am not on benefits. I am lucky that where I live, the mental health service is very good if you have depression, and I have been given a place in a long term psychotherapy group. It took over a year of waiting for me to get this place, during which time I had a severe bout of depression, necessitating me to be on the highest dose of my antidepressants - which made me feel like shit.

Maybe one day I will conquer the depression and live without medication. Until that point, I will carry on measuring out my life in tablets, with every day in shades of grey.

Wow, it is beliefs/attitudes like some expressed on here that will set back attitudes towards mental illness years. I can't believe people still think like this in this day and age! Just because you can't see something doesn't make it and less imporant than something you can, sometimes more so.

I have already said that there will be some who play the system, but you will get this with many other instances as well. But everyone experiences these things differently, and until we undertstand that we'll never have true empathy.

When my mother had severe, suicidal depression after barely surviving cancer the year before, her sister-in-law wrote her a steaming letter about how she ought to get up off her backside, stop feeling sorry for herself and take bettercare of her husband and family...disgusting, my father hasn't spoken to her since which is fine by me.

SDTG, you write very touchingly and eloquently, and I hope you're ok. I'm amazed to see attitudes like this in this 'enlightened age', but hey ho.

Just realised how poorly I wrote that first sentence in my amazement:

that will set back attitudes towards mental illness years

is meant to read:

that will set attitudes towards mental illness back years!

Thanks MrsC - I am so sorry that your mother had such a nasty experience, and if what I have said here helps some more people understand what it is like to live inside the skin of someone with depression, then it has been worth posting here.

I am surviving - taking things one day at a time, and doing what I can. Today has been reasonably good - I have got some jobs crossed off my 'To Do' list - all I need to do now is find the motivation to go and cook macaroni cheese and bacon with broccoli for supper......

And your first sentence made sense to me the way you wrote it at first.

I despair at this whole attitude as captured by Granmercy, this whole 'well I saw them out shopping so they can obviously work' thing. Do you have any idea at all how hurtful this can be, and how wrong it is. Coldhands etc, luckily not everyone thinks like this.
I have chronic illness, not depression but something that effects me differently from day to day. Some days I can even go to the gym, or go for a long walk. Some days I can't move. But people don't see me then. They ust assume I am fine, and can't understand why I shoouldn't work.
I'd love to work. really, love to. Who would employ me, who would need more time off sick than be in work? No one, aint going to happen. People don't ust give up you know, or decide they'll scrounge off the state for an easy option. It's so not.
I'm reading this trhead. I have seen too many of these on MN lately and feel fed up of feeling like I have to ustify myself. I should leave the thread, probably. But wanted to show solidarity with those on it who are truly suffering.
OP, I can't really make a udgment on whether you ABU or not, don't know the details. But I can flag up those posters who are being ignorant.
sorry this makes no sense. am drugged up and my key between h and k doesn't work!!

Today is an avarage day. Not good, not bad. Another numb day. I have got my baby up, dressed, changed as needed, washed him, played with him, smiled and laughed with him, tickled him... And once he is asleep I have gone into the bathroom and sobbed. I have cried my heart out. And then once he wakes back up, I have washed my face, and gone back in and picked him up with the biggest smile I can muster.

And all the while I a wondering why on earth I am still here. Wondering what the point is. Because this wonderful, beautiful, smiley little boy deserves nothing but the very best. And I know that's not me.

Constantly there is the thought of "Why don't you just die?", whether I'm smiling, laughing, walking, singing - even making love. "It would be so easy. Look, just take those pills / pick up that knife / jump in front of that car..."

One in four people suffer from this fucking horrible condition. Just because it doesn't fit the specification you have decided "Depression" consists of, doesn't mean people are lying. If you met me, you would think I was a confident, jolly young mother, comfortable with people and with myself. Inside I am a scared little girl, huddled in a corner, crying and wishing for all the pain to stop. You cannot possibly know how people are - people with depression are generally very good actors.

SDTG 'You may not have said that you don't believe me or that I could just snap out of it - or indeed that you believe the same of your ex, but your posts come across as very sceptical and disbelieving, and as if you think that there is a simple 'fix' for depression - like going to the gym'

My posts are sceptical and disbelieving....of my EX not you.
I dont think there is a simple fix, you are reading into it wrongly. Unforunately the gym didnt help you but surely it would be wrong to think it couldnt help someone because from what I understand not all depression is the same. Note I said 'help' not 'fix'. My question was purely that...not really to you at all, it was thrown out to everyone. I wont say anything else to you because I feel you are taking my questions personally and I dont want to upset you.. My thread was started because I was feeling bad about a situation. It wasnt designed to offend all people with depression.

Erikamaye - Is it postnatal depression you have and m.e? To be honest I felt like that after the birth of my 2nd baby(Yes really)...what you wrote up there was me all those years ago. I just want you to know, and I know that you wont believe me, but I came through it, it isnt necessarily always going to be like that, I hope you can see some light at the end of the tunnel. Oh and by the way....there is noone that is better for your baby than you and he needs you whether you believe that or not.

No, I have Borderline Personality Disorder, ME and now PND. I have been ill for as long as I can remember. So forgive me if I am cynical about there being a light.

Forgive me for being so blunt, but you clearly don't understand much about depression.

Depression can take many, many forms. It is not, as is the popular opinion of even many GPs these days, a simple case of thinking your life sucks and you just can't be arsed with anything anymore.

When I had a breakdown at the age of 25 I spent 11 months as an outpatient in a psychiatric ward. I had to take the time off sick from my job, and was eventually made redundant, because there was no way I could've continued to work throughout this time. Not because I 'didn't feel up to working,' but because certain very specific aspects of my job would cause me to have severe panic attacks, which of course would have been far too disruptive for my co-workers to deal with on a day-to-day basis. Other than that I could function perfectly normally for most of the time - I still went home at the end of every day and cooked, did all the usual household stuff, etc. I certainly didn't walk around 'being depressed' all the time.

Incapacity Benefit is damned hard to get for mental health-related problems - I had to go through all sorts of hoops to get mine, and they whipped it right away from me again practically the minute I was discharged from the psychiatric ward. And if you really want to know how hard it is to get back into another job after a long period of depression.. well, try telling a potential employer at your next job interview that the recent gap in your CV is due to you having treatment for depression! Doesn't exactly shoot you to the top of the 'yes' pile, no matter how well-qualified you are for the job. I was out of work for a further year after being discharged from hospital, simply because no employer would touch me with a bargepole for that long.

His parents gave him the holiday because they obviously thought he needed it - and who knows, perhaps he did. How should it have gone then - should he have spent every minute hating it and crying at the futility of life until he got home, in order to 'prove' to you that he's genuinely depressed?

If paying maintenance for you and your kids is your issue, then that's your issue, not his mental health. Therefore I think it's unfair of you to try and strap it to his depression and claim that it's just his excuse for not getting a job that pays enough money to hand over to you. And if you're hassling him about it all the time you aint exactly helping him recover enough to GET another job.

Hi Erika, your post is really moving. It sounds to me like you're a fantastic mother to your little boy despite your health issues. It's your illness that is making you think you're not good enough, you make your little boy laugh and smile even though you feel so down, that's an amazing thing to do and I'm sure your little boy thinks you're the very best mummy in the whole world!

What sort of support and help are you getting Erika? Is it helping you?

ErikeMaye I had PND. And I felt just like you described in your post. The amount of times I wondered why the hell my DS got lumbered with a mum like me. Are you on anti-depressants? They did help me so much, as did getting out and meeting people, which I can appreciate is very difficult with M.E. but it really did make me feel so much better and that was my road to recovery (can't comment on the Borderline Personality Disorder, as I have no knoweldge of that).

Believe me when I say, there is NO better mum for YOUR son than YOU!!!!!! My mum left me when I was 4 and I was brought up by my nan. The feeling of being totally abandoned by her has never (and never will) gone away. I used to cry so much and my DH would have to come home from work as I couldn't cope with the PND. When I joined the toddler groups, I discovered other mums who were exactly the same and we are such good friends now. I really recommend SureStart. They are absolutely fantastic and have access to all sorts of services, including cheaper stairgates and stuff for people on benefits.

I'm really sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time of it. It is awful, but it really really does get better. Especially (with regards to the M.E.) when they are a little older and can occupy themselves for a while. I found routines helped me to deal with it too (my DS got his own routine, but you could start one, if you don't have one). And now he is 2 I still always have a sleep when he does. I'm dreading it when he drops his sleep! I really HTH!.

Madhairday Thank you for showing your support. I was going to hide this thread too, but its nice to know that there are others who support you.

This is why I never told people why I was off work.

I was far to embarrassed.

And TBH I was in the position of having a 'good excuse' to be depressed as my DD had died. (To be clear - not my thoughts about good excuses). Child loss is something that people can sort of think 'if that was me I wouldnt be able to get up in the morning' type of events so I reckon I got more sympathy than the rest of you.

But that was limited. The very people that say ' I would just DIE if my DC died' also tend to be the ones that say 'isnt it time YOU moved on?'

I was trying to be nice erika...will give up now.

Do you know what, Im just going to get off 'my' thread now. I started it because I was pissed off, having a shit day, tired and exasperated. Id just sat with my ex as he tapped into his blackberry after showing up in his new car, as he bragged about his new house and his fabby holiday. Nobody seems to be noticing that bit though.

chaos theorymum...you dont know him though do you....you just wanted to tell your story. I find this statement from you....' * that* it's just his excuse for not getting a job that pays enough money to hand over to you very insulting...its not for me!!!! its for our children!!! Have you read the other threads I have written about how when even when he was earning plenty of money he still didnt pay the csa money he should have done? no! didnt think you did...get your facts straight before you accuse.

This statement.....And if you're hassling him about it all the time you aint exactly helping him recover enough to GET another job.

also untrue.....when have i ever ever said i have hassled him about it.

I am very fed up now, Im not depressed but I am so tired I ahve myself just burst into tears and sobbed, then wiped my eyes, read my little boy a story and chased him up the stairs to bed....all after a days fucking hard work from 7 - 6!!!!

I don't think anyone is debating that your ex is acting out of line. Is more your statement "am dubious to the severity of his problem" - kinda sums up everything that's been said, I think. And what - are you allowed to express how you feel, but when I'm partially honest about how my day goes its not okay? I'm sorry to hear that you had a tough time, but nobodies experience of any illness is exactly the same, so it is irrational to judge that someone is "okay" just because they can function better than another individual.

• Thank you for those kind and supportive comments, really appreciate them. Coldhands am so sorry to hear about your mother. x

getting ESA for mental health issues is very very difficult.

My XH recently "failed" his ESA medical - just a few weeks after having spend 3 weeks in a psychiatric unit, suffering from very severe depression and psychosis (the latter of which ended up manifesting itself with command hallucinations where he attacked me).

They deemed him fully fit for work (it's currently on appeal)

Depression though affects people differentl, some people are better off in work (the only thing that kept me "sane" just after I took an OD was continuing with my organ playing and commitments at church), some people are better off out of work. A lot will depend on the things that "trigger" particularly low periods.

doodles The problem with this thread, whether you meant to offend or not, is that anyone with a "hidden" health problem, especially things like depression and ME, hears a lot of comments about snapping out of it, or how they should just deal with it. So it's a really really sensitive subject, and it is difficult to distance yourself and realise that it's not meant to be personal. Especially with depression!

And unfortunately some of your comments are word for word what gets said a lot. And in the midst of depression, you aren't going to be feeling too able to listen to anything positive. Or in this case, disengage from the conversation.

Your ex sounds like he has been an idiot in the past, obviously all we have to go on is what you say and what we've been through. So for now I agree with your ex being unreasonable, but I still cringe when I read what you said about his depression.

erikamaye, youve totally misunderstood me, i dont know how, i was giving sympathy, being nice, trying to tell you to not give up hope. Im not sure how thats been construed as saying its not okay to be partially honest about your day...am genuinely confused what youre talking about. I know all about m.e, my mum has it, i have had pnd... i thought i would offer support but, what the hell i dont know what you have construed about me now.

I think that if I were witnessing someone I didnt know then it would be logical for you all to say Im out of order, but I do know him very well. What is wrong with saying I doubt the severity of his problem, his not yours, or anyone elses. Im not judging everybody, Im not judging people on benefits, Ive been on them when I needed them. Im not judging people with depression, I've had it too. I was pissed off with him. Why does a person you know nothing about deserve more compassion than the person who is sat here at the end of her tether?