to think he should not be on incapacity benefit

[doodles31]

My ex has been off work for about 8 months now with depression and anxiety. I am dubious to the severity of his problem as he seems capable to do most things. If someone were severely depressed then would they be capable of going to Florida for 2 weeks (paid for by his parents) or aibu to even question it? To me, incapacitated means just that, how can you be capable of leaving your home/routine, getting on a plane, walking round disneyland going on rides for 2 weeks but not of working. I believe that he has given up on the idea of work because he knows that it wouldnt be worth it. If he worked he would have to pay csa money for his 4 children, quite frankly, I think hes trying to get away with not paying it, or have i entirely got the wrong idea of incapacity benefit and who/what its for?

ILT - "how do gp's have the time in an appointment to do the proper assesment. they dont."

Actually some of them do.

"when my ex went to a psychiatrist for a proper diagnosis he was hours and hours."

Oh right. Well then my psych must have been shit because it took him about 20 minutes to diagnose my bipolar disorder.

"gp's cant do the job of the psychiatrist. he said that himself"

Oh, well if one psychiatrist made a passing comment to that effect then it is obviously universally true of all GPs and all cases of depression. My anecdata, let me show you it.

There is a big difference between 'real' depression, and going though a phase of unhappiness, disappointment, sadness, anxiety, worry, etc.

I think many are far too quick to claim 'depression', and GPs hand out medicine far too liberally. I mean, who wouldn't rather take a 'magic pill' to make them feel better so they don't have to feel painful and unhappy emotions?

I don't advocate suffering for the sake of it, but sometimes what we need is to learn to cope when we feel upset, and learn to manage chronic sad/angry feelings rather than medicating them away.

That being said, for those who have chemical imbalances that cause their depression, medication in conjunction with counselling can be a vital lifeline.

fairycake......how long is a gp appointment these days?
i came out with a prescription in five mins flat
,even though i no way had depression,just needed the prescription. easy. and i'm no actress

psychiatrist are alot more specialised than gp's.

wasnt bi polar in this case,personality disorder....knew throughout the marriage it wasnt bloody 'depression'. stupid gp coukdnt be arsed to look at it properly so i put up with all kinds of crap because the poor love was supposedly 'depressed' and needed tlc!! what a load of crap...and you know what....have spoken to many people who have been sceptical about 'depression'.....in the end i didnt care about his depression or him. i told him exactly how to kil himself successfully as he kept botching that up too.

Gramercy it is people with attitudes like yours to M.E. that make it so sodding difficult for us that suffer with it. You have no idea what it feels like. I look perfectly fine. I also went out Friday night, I go shopping, and take my DS swimming. It is called being able to manage our condition. We have good and bad days and even good and bad periods within a day. I am totally useless in the mornings but later afternoon, early evening is my best time.

It is this exact thing that pisses me right off and I thought there were less people out there who thought like this now. I have obviously just come across one of the more ignorant people who, just because they can't see how a person feels, means that they are completely fine.

Coldhands, thank you for putting that so much more eloquently than I could have managed today (flare up day).

No problem . Raising awareness where it may be needed.

And how are you getting on with the baby ErikaMaye? I think you posted before about labour with M.E.?

Sorry to hijack your thread OP.

I would have thought a holiday would help someone with depression?

Depression can be debilitating, it isn't as simple as just staying in work to keep in touch with the real world, trust me.

And no, I am not blind to the rip offs that some people are...far from it. BUT, in order to help those that are genuine there will be those fraudsters (not saying your EX is) who benefit. The only way to ensure no fraudsters is to get rid of the benefit altogether, cutting off help to those who really need it.

Getting on okay thanks - managed a normal birth with a TENS for labour and nothing for delivery (was supposed to have an epidural but they kept having more urgent cases to deal with, and then was 10cm...), thankfully with no tears, DS born 0220 11/11 weighing 7lb9oz He's an utter joy, getting VERY chubby, though is teething early Have got PND though, so trying very hard to hold it together. ME hasn't got any worse, though this cold weather is doing nothing to help!! Finding changing him the hardest part, getting up and down, plus the fact he is now a 13lb lump. Gorgeous little thing though (not that I'm biased, of course ). Thanks for asking. Sorry for the novel, he's the only thing keeping me sane at the moment - the smiles and chuckles are getting me through the day - so could talk about him endlessly!! I hope you're not suffering too much at the moment.

Sorry for hijack.

Glad to hear you are getting on ok. Your labour sounds good. I have been thinking about braving it without an epidural when we have another one. I had PND too, best thing for me was going to toddler groups but I didn't do that until DS was 5 months. I was always worried that I would be too tired etc after just getting us ready but it really has saved my sanity and I have made fantastic friends who are all really understanding of my M.E. and chase after DS if he needs it. Now he is 2 though it is easier with him walking, as he is heavy for me.
I'm going through quite a good period at the moment. Only been a few days but I have actually been able to do a little bit of housework! Can't actually remember the last time I done that.

I suffered from depression for a few years and I did take a holiday but I did spend 3 solid days in bed when I just couldn't face getting up.

Depression is the most horrific thing I've ever had to deal with. I knew I was doing myself no good, hiding away from the world, not just from work but my friends and family but there were times when I just couldn't face any kind of human contact.

I do think that support to get back into work can help, but you've got to deal with the basics first, like getting some sleep, eating, brushing your teeth, answering the phone, opening letters.

The thing I found the most difficult was to make a commitment, to anything. The idea of having to be somewhere and at a specific time or day filled me with absolute terror.

I eventually got some fantastic help through the jobcentre and the NHS specifically aimed at getting me back to work, but there was no pressure at all, it was at my pace and it was very much about getting me better and having the chance to live a full life again, rather than getting me off Incapacity Benefit and off the figures.

Helping people back to work after depression should form part of the overall treatment, but it shouldn't be seen as a cheap and easy option. If it's done properly, with patient care at the forefront, I'm afraid it's costly and time consuming.

I'm not in favour of forcing people with depression back to work sooner than they're ready any more than I'm in favour of forcing a patient recovering from a heart attack back into work before they're ready.

yabu mind your own business !!!!!!!!!!

I was on IB due to depression.

I had given up work to care for sick DD and we were getting by with the help of her DLA and my carers allowance.

When she died this all stopped and I was nowhere near able to go back to work. The only option was to go on IB really.

After nearly two years it stopped. I had been on one of their medicals and sobbed the whole way through. But because I had been able to turn up for the medical this made me ok to work. I was terrified at the prospect of going back to work, even going to the job centre was incredibly difficult at the time.

The problem is not always not being able to do any work for people with depression and disabilities, its being able to find suitable work.

I was very, very lucky. I found a 10hr per week job that just covered the IB I had lost and its a job that I love and can do without it causing me too much stress.

But I really dont know where I would be now if the only job I could find was more hours and more stress. I think I would probably be very unwell which would have devastating consequences for my family.

Similar for OH. He has MS and does work. But only because he has a job with hours that suit his condition and just covers our outgoings.

He couldnt possibly do just any job. It would make him very ill and then I would have to be his full time carer and give up my job.

So its all a fine balance.

I have suffered with depression since i was 15...10 years....the last few years have been awful with PND doubled up on top of already exsisting depression...i have days when i wake up and im fine...i have other days when i dont feel i can get out of bed...and want the world to go away...days when i want to not exsist....thoughts of doing things to take away the "pain" i feel....these days i couldnt work...these are the days if i were to work i would fall aprat and nothing would be done i wouldn't be able to function...

Anyone who who 'knows' me would say im lovely to know and always smiling....

they dont see me behind my front door on my bad days

Actually I have a close relative with clinical depression and ME. I have witnessed exactly what it is like.

The point I am making is that it is offensive , not to mention criminal, to exaggerate or invent ailments which are conveniently invisible to avoid work and potentially get more benefits.

Please read a post before yelling "ignorant" at somebody.

I cannot read all of this thread - I have skimmed through the first page.

I suffer from depression, and have done so since I was in my mid teens, when bullying at school left me contemplating suicide.

During my 20s I did work - I trained as a nurse and worked for three years after qualifying, then went to university, got my degree and then got married. Work was always a struggle for me, and looking back, I can see that I was suffering bouts of depression (I wasn't diagnosed until later).

After the birth of each of the dses, I suffered quite badly from postnatal depression, and this is the first time that any form of depression was formally diagnosed, so I thought I was suffering from PND, and that when that got better, I would be free of depression, but I never have been.

I worked again, between ds2 and ds3, but still struggled at work - I felt isolated, anxious, and believed I was a failure and a useless nurse (though I did my job to the best of my abilities, and never did anything less than a reasonably good job).

Since the birth of ds3, I haven't worked (other than some voluntary work and some temporary paid work at ds1's school). I have been, and still am struggling with depression - I was finally diagnosed with depression, rather than PND, so it seems that I got PND because I was already depressed/predisposed to depression.

I have been on antidepressants for years, and am now in psychotherapy, which can be hugely painful, and I struggle with day-to-day life. The depression leaves me feeling permanently tired, unable to concentrate or remember simple things (like people's names). Some days I would like to stay in bed, go to sleep and never wake up. I haven't given in to this, but there are many days when I struggle to do even the basics - have a shower, make myself eat breakfast or make myself a reasonably healthy lunch. I have joined a choir and an art class to get me out of the house and my isolation and loneliness, but even though I usually enjoy these, it is often a real struggle to make myself get out of the house and go.

I have been on holiday during the years when I have had depression, and have enjoyed them, but the depression has always been there, like a black dog on my shoulder. Sometimes he goes away, but he is never far away, and I never know when he will strike again. Even when he is not there, I still feel his effects, and they curtail my activities and enjoyment - everything is in shades of grey.

I wish that those people who have believe that those of us with depression need to just pull up our socks and get back to work, and then we will be fine (because we probably don't have depression at all, we are just skiving, grasping frauds) could walk a few miles in my shoes.

Try living a life where you want to die - not quite enough to do anything concrete about suicide, and not quite enough to be able to put my family through the pain of my suicide, but enough that falling asleep and never waking up again seems like the kindest option for me, and would release me from a life of failure.

'I wish that those people who have believe that those of us with depression need to just pull up our socks and get back to work, and then we will be fine (because we probably don't have depression at all, we are just skiving, grasping frauds) could walk a few miles in my shoes.'

But plenty of people aren't saying that.

They're saying that, in many cases, work can be of benefit to depressed people, depending on the type and employer.

But it seems you can't do this without being accused of being ignorant or evil, a Tory, etc.

It is fortunate, too, to live in a society that has a good safety net/benefits system because this is definitely not the case in many countries.

I doubt there are many workers who would happily or willingly accomodate someone with depression - someone who might not be able to get out of bed let alone get to work, someone who could feel so overwhelmed at work that they couldn't carry on, someone who had no energy at all, nor any enthusiasm or motivation, who was simply frozen inside.

I suspect that co-workers wouldn't be happy either, at working with someone they might have to 'carry' when their depression got bad - and the stress of knowing you are putting extra work on your colleagues and they resent you for it, would not be good for someone with depression.

On the other hand, I have spoken to people with depression who found that work, or at least the attitude of their boss to their illness, was the final straw that broke them.

I haven't called anyone evil or ignorant or a tory - I have simply tried to show you what it is like living with depression, so that people can understand how incapacitating depression can be.

And for the record, I am not claiming any incapacity/invalidity etc benefits due to my depression, and I never have.

SDTG your post made me cry and brought back just exactly how I felt when I was depressed. It can seem like you'll never get better, for me I also wondered if I even wanted to get better (that's depression I suppose, I used my depression to beat myself up further).

I'm glad to say that after trying various different therapies and anti depressants, I hit upon CBT which worked for me. I can now function with my depression.

There is light at the end of tunnel for you SDTG and you're obviously working really hard to get through this.

Thank-you wubblybubbly. You are right - it does feel as if I will feel this way forever, and I too use my depression to beat myself up further (it is one of the things I am actually any good at).

I have just noticed in my last post that I said:

"I doubt there are many workers who would happily or willingly accomodate someone with depression..." - what I actually meant to say was:

"I doubt there are many employers who would happily or willingly accomodate someone with depression..." - durrrrrr - depression brain.

What do you live off then SDTG?
Surely its the same for anyone though. If you dont get up, have a shower and get on with stuff then it does make you feel like crap. I am not depressed but if I do something out of routine then I spend the rest of the day with a fuzzy head, feel ill, tired, have shit memory, want to go to sleep for a thousand years. I imagine that if I did this for more than a day I would be feeling suicidal as well. Exercise might be really helpful, they always say that it is a natural mood enhancer and can help depression considerably. Should the nhs be offering free gym membership to people on incapacity benefit and you have to commit to doing it in order to start getting better?
Someone else said it on here as well, how come if you are depressed you can 'force' yourself to do things that are nice such as go to choir, art class (wish I had the time or energy to those things) but not the things that arent so nice?

justsue...why should i mind my own business? What do you know? Im the one thats working 50 hours a week whilst looking after his children receiving no financial contribution whilst he sits around moaning and doing jack diddly squat. Its not like I am on his case telling him to get a job, I am airing my grievance on Mumsnet, probably best I get it out of my system on here than in real life.

wow. doodles you really are having trouble with your empathy implant today aren't you.

Can I ask, as it has been bugging me since the op, why do you refer to the children you had with your ex as "his" children. They are your children, as in our children. If he is unable to work for whatever reason then as the other parent equally responsible for their well-being why would you feel aggrieved that you are supporting them?

It seems to me that you don't believe depression is an illness at all, it seems to me that you feel it is a get out clause. Am I right?

I had 3 months off work with depression and did nothing at home. I didn't get worse, I got better. That time out was exactly what I needed to put myself back together again.

I think unless you've experienced depression it is really difficult to understand what it does to you - your ability to think, function, feel. The smallest, insignficant tasks turn into an unsurmountable mountain. It doesn't make sense, and when I'm well I find it hard to understand myself why I couldn't do things when I was ill, so I can see why someone who has never experienced depression would think that all we need to do is "pull ourselves together", just go out to work or just go and do some exercise. It really isn't that easy or simple though.

My husband earns enough to support the family - we made a decision when we got married that we would have a lifestyle that could be supported on his wages alone, which meant that what I earned was bunce, and I could give up work when the children came along. I hope that satisfies your nosiness curiosity.

And it is NOT the same for everyone - I feel crap whether I get up and get on with stuff or not. The suicidal feelings have nothing to do with whether I am working or not, or whether I have had a shower.

Sometimes I can't 'force' myself to go to choir or art class - and I am sorry that you don't have the time to do so, but you sound bitter and jealous that I do.

You advocate exercise/joining a gym as something to make depression better - that is the aim of the art class and the choir for me too - to meet people, talk to them, break the loneliness, achieve something that will make me feel a bit better (mastering a difficult piece, or painting something that looks like what it is)

And doodles - this IS my real life, and attitudes like yours don't help, they hurt. I struggled to write what I did, in the hopes that it might help you, and others, understand that depression is not a selfish life-style choice, it is an illness that can ruin your entire life. I truly hope you never suffer from it the way I am suffering - but I wish you could walk a few miles in my shoes - it is not a happy place to be, I assure you. Sometimes it is only the thought of the damage and pain it would cause that stops me committing suicide. Knowing there are people like you in the world, who think I am just making it up, and could snap out of it any time I want, pushes me the other way.