To insist my son leaves college?

[AlevelDevil]

My son is 16 and at college studying for his A Levels. He's doing Maths, English, Drama and Media Studies. He's bright (I know, everyone says their child is!) but lazy and almost every teacher he's ever had has said the same thing. It was a real struggle to get him to do his GCSE coursework and we regularly had calls and letters home asking us to make sure he got things done. He ended up in isolation for two days so that he could complete his English Literature coursework on time!

He started college in September last year so has only been going for about four months and so far we've had six letters home complaining that work is late and threatening him with "Non entry status". He doesn't differentiate, these are from all subjects, so it's not that he's struggling with just one. I'm not sure he's struggling at all though. It's not that he can't do the work. He just won't do it.

One of his teachers phoned me at home to say that she'd had complaints from another teacher about him messing about in class and being silly and she said that she had also had the same problems but had spoken to him and things had improved. She said that he was late with work in all subjects and could we talk to him about it. I said I would but that it would be pointless as he just denies everything the teachers say. eg: When I was told at parent's evening that he had been in isolation I rang him and he said he hadn't. The teacher was right infront of me and he said it wasn't true.

When the letters have arrived home from college complaining that work is late he says that they've got it now and that their system is slow. He denied messing around in class and said the teacher has him confused with someone else. The letter we received this morning said that he's not going to lessons. I haven't mentioned it to him yet as I know he'll say "They're confused!" and it's impossible to discuss something with someone who is denying the whole situation.

My partner says it's a waste of time him being there and that he should leave and get a job but my son wants to stay. I don't think he wants to stay because he wants to do the work though. He likes the social aspect of college life. He has much more freedom now that he is 16 and not at school and goes out straight after dinner most week day evenings and is out most of the weekends but I do try to insist he's home before 10.30pm. He also has a part time job but they only call when they need him so it's only ever a couple of Saturdays or Sundays a month.

We have said repeatedly that if he doesn't pull his socks up then he'll have to leave the college but he says we want to ruin the rest of his life by not letting him do A Levels but his report put him on course for D grades and that's only if he isn't given the "Non entry status" threatened!

Is it reasonable to think that at some point we say enough is enough and at what point do we say it?

How about giving him a deadline of one more half term to pull up his grades by at least one grade or you pull him out (by Easter hols). IF he does though, he gets £50 (one payment for grades averaged over the half term) and every average grade increase after that. It's not bribing, it's positive reinforcement!!!

The question is, can he get a job? They are a bit thin on the ground at the moment. And with an attitude like his, can he keep it? The situation you want to avoid is one where he is simply bumming around your house and still has to be fed. You need to have a serious talk with him.

Cory said it for me....I'd be worried about having a son bumming about the house too....although you could link housework to getting fed!

Don't bribe him. The motivation to do well needs to come from him.

Why do you let him out so much on school nights? He should be at home studying.

You won't need to do anything, the college will refuse to have him back at some point if he doesn't meet their requirements.
You could start thinking about Plan B, what will you do with an idle lad living in your home with nowhere to have to be during the week.

I was a bit like this in college I thought I could wing/blag everything as I thought I was really clever! I told all sorts of lies too mainly to get my dad of my case as I felt I knew what I was doing as I knew how college worked and he didn't IYSWIM?

In the end my dad just left the college notes out for me to open and read and didn't ask me anything about it. I think he just left me to it and if I got kicked out so be it!

I did this all through college (leaving with 4 A grades and 1 A at AS level) but got a very nasty shock when I started uni as I messed around in my first year and nearly failed! That was the only thing tat shocked me into realising I was not infallible.

i think he should be on report.he writes what work he has to do in the planner ,which is checked by the teacher.then you can see what he has to do.Don't let him go out or play on xbox/DS whatever until it's completed.

Thank you all for your replies.

ShushPenfold ~ The deadline is a good idea! He's 17 in April so that's another couple of months away and ample time to show that he's making an effort. I don't think we want to go down the money for grades route though as he really needs to self motivate.

Cory ~ Yes, have wondered what he'll do if he's not in college. DP has said he doesn't see the point of him going back on Monday and isn't going to give him his travel or lunch money (He's not entitled to EMA) and thinks he should spend the day at the job centre. I'm sure he'll calm down and give him his fares and lunch but this is what keeps happening and at some point we're going to have to do something different.

SkiDoodle ~ Agree with you completely re bribes. When he comes home from college on week days (Gets in sometime between 5pm and 6pm ish) I always ask if he has any work that needs doing and he says no. I then say "Are you sure there's absolutely no work whatsoever you could be doing? Some reading or something?" "No, nothing. I had a couple of free periods so I'm up to date." There isn't really any reason why he can't go out and to be honest if I say no it causes huge tantrums and door slammings (He smashed his light switch last week) so it's easier to let him go and he's back by 9pm on week days.

GoblinChild I really hope it's true that the college will refuse to have him as it'll take the decision out of our hands. I've told him the college will throw him out if they're always having to chase him up for work but he says they only throw out trouble makers and those who have less than something-or-other pecentage of lessons attendance.

I've now spoken to him about the letter we received today and he doesn't know why they sent that letter as it's "old news" and the teacher has spoken to him about both missed lessons and was happy with DSs reasons. He was feeling sick so went and sat in the refectory till he felt better but by then there was just 10mins left of the lesson so didn't bother going. Arghhh! It's nonsense. I know it. He knows it and I'd put money on the teacher knowing it but there's no way of disproving it. He was off with friends somewhere would be my guess. The other lesson was missed because he was chasing up another teacher. He could have done this at break, or lunch or during one of the famous "Free periods" but he chose do spend an hour and half of lesson time trying to find them. Just off the top of my head I'd say they were probably in a lesson just as he should have been.

I think the best thing I can do is talk to DP again about some sort of deadline for there to be an improvement and also phone the college and talk to someone who oversees the students about what's going on and explain to them the problems we're having. I'm also going to have to get my thinking cap on for a "Plan B" as it hadn't really occured to me that he might just end up at home on the X Box all day.

Why were you at parent's evening without him? It is much more useful when the student is actually there.

Arrange a meeting with the college and go in with your son and agree an action plan with them. He will find it much harder to dodge the truth if you are all sat together in front of him.

Get it in writing what he needs to do to stay in college with agreed targets (e.g. no late work, certain grades) and get him to sign it.

Get in email contact with his tutors and ask for updates. Much better than letters.

Then if he messes up again, he doesn't have any excuse.

NavyEyeLash ~ Thanks for replying. I wish I could just ignore the letters and let him get on with it but they phone home too! It's all so stressful because I have college telling me one thing and DS telling me another. Today he told me that the drama teacher that phoned home hates him and is a bit mental and that another of the teachers agrees . He'd love it if we all just left him alone and at first I just put the letters on the fridge and believed his explainations but when the calls started (Because I was ignoring the letters) I realised I couldn't just ignore it anymore.

PrincessParty Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'm not sure if they put students on report in college but I'm going to ask when I phone on Monday. We did this a few times over the years when he was in school but he kept "losing" the report book. Once he started getting detentions for his absentmindedness he didn't lose it quite so much. It didn't make that much difference but at least school knew I was trying to work with them.

Our local 6th form is very sniffy about student attitude, attendance and coursework. So if you don't make the grade at AS, you don't move on to the next year and A level. One of my DD's friends missed lessons and didn't hand in coursework on a regular basis and they bounced him out at Christmas.
All colleges are different though, so perhaps yours is more flexible. It does sound as if they are trying.

NobleGiraffe ~ He came to most Parent's evenings with us but missed a few over the years due to other commitments. A meeting with him and a tutor and myself at the college would definitely be a good idea as I feel a bit like a middle man. Agreed targets is a good idea and something that I'll suggest if we can get a meeting at the college arranged.

I just didn't think that this is how it would be. It's like he's still at school having to be chased by us and the teachers.

Yes, Goblinchild. I think the college is trying to help him. The English teacher that phoned said he's obviously very bright and has lots of good opinions and answers during lessons but when it's time to get in down on paper he just can't be bothered and hands in the bare minimum. I don't know what they expect me to do though. I feel like my hands are tied and it's making me very unhappy.

If he breaks his lightswitch, he lives in the dark....

He needs to learn some respect for himself, for his family and for his life - he will get nowhere with that attitude.

I'd ground him on week days and punish the tantrums - there IS work he needs to do. You KNOW there is because his tutors say so.

The fact is, he's lying to you and getting away with it. Clamp down on him and lay it on the line.

There is huge workload for four A levels so if ds is out the majority of the time then he simply isn't putting in the hours needed and so obviously he is missing deadlines etc.
I think I would try clipping his wings a bit and keep him at home on weekday evenings and a proviso that he is only allowed out at weekends after you have checked that he has done the necessary schoolwork.
He is 16 and under your roof so start laying down the law a bit and make him fulfill his obligations in return for your support.

It's difficult grounding someone who can either just chose not to come home, or walk out of the door and you be unable to stop them.
Does he want to go to university? Has he ever had a job, part-time or holiday? He doesn't seem to be very aware of his future prospects, and how they are affected by his actions now.
I'd cut the financial strings and see what happens, board and lodging anything else is a consequence of how well he knuckles down at college and works.

How can a 16 yo just walk through the door ?He is still a minor and under his parents' control surely ?

Must have pretty compliant kids here then because if they are grounded then they would stick by it.
House rules apply whilst under my roof and recieving my support here I'm afraid.

Mine is 15, 5'10 and 10 stone. I'm 5'2" and 8stone.
If he wanted to leave and I wanted him to stay, I'd have to knock him out by stealth.
So finding a way other than ordering him would be more effective.
Likewise. when my parents grounded me at 16, I went to college and disappeared for three days.

I think you need to sit down and have a serious talk with him. I think you have been too soft.

He needs to make a decision as to which was he is going to go. Either:

He is going to stay at college, living at home, being a student and effectively still a child. If this happens he will be supported financially, but he will have to help around the house. He can have his washign done, or whatever you choose to do.

OR he can leave college, get a ob and move out. Be an adult. Do his own washing, support himself financially.

He is straddling some kind of middle ground and it's not working. He likes the social side of college but doesn't want to do the work. Why are you chasing him all the time about his work?

If he wants to take option 1, then he can stay at home as long as he stays in college. if his grades fall and he gets kicked out, then he needs to face the real world. Tell him what the hard reality will be if he doesn't keep working at him courses.

Stop beliving or even entertaining his lies about work and tutors, don't listen. Tell him that his work is his own resposibility, not yours, if he doesn't do it, then he needs to get a job. Or do you want to support his social habit for the next 2 years?

Any 16 year old who disrespects a parent so much that they would use their physical mass to ignore a grounding needs to move out and make it on their own, IMO,

Mine have been taller than me since they were 11 and so am only taller than my 6 year old but I give my 6 footers the look and they know I mean business

Aleveldevil apologies in advance if I'm speaking out of turn, but would he consider seeing the college counsellor? (most colleges have them these days...) It's not just for people with "problems" in their past etc but can also help students having difficulty with self-motivation/deadlines etc and may help him focus on what he wants out of life and learn to take responsibility for himself.

indeed, asd. ust because they are taller than you doesn't mean you can't control them, or discipline them. They need to respect you and understand that you mean business. They can smell weakness