To insist my son leaves college?

[AlevelDevil]

My son is 16 and at college studying for his A Levels. He's doing Maths, English, Drama and Media Studies. He's bright (I know, everyone says their child is!) but lazy and almost every teacher he's ever had has said the same thing. It was a real struggle to get him to do his GCSE coursework and we regularly had calls and letters home asking us to make sure he got things done. He ended up in isolation for two days so that he could complete his English Literature coursework on time!

He started college in September last year so has only been going for about four months and so far we've had six letters home complaining that work is late and threatening him with "Non entry status". He doesn't differentiate, these are from all subjects, so it's not that he's struggling with just one. I'm not sure he's struggling at all though. It's not that he can't do the work. He just won't do it.

One of his teachers phoned me at home to say that she'd had complaints from another teacher about him messing about in class and being silly and she said that she had also had the same problems but had spoken to him and things had improved. She said that he was late with work in all subjects and could we talk to him about it. I said I would but that it would be pointless as he just denies everything the teachers say. eg: When I was told at parent's evening that he had been in isolation I rang him and he said he hadn't. The teacher was right infront of me and he said it wasn't true.

When the letters have arrived home from college complaining that work is late he says that they've got it now and that their system is slow. He denied messing around in class and said the teacher has him confused with someone else. The letter we received this morning said that he's not going to lessons. I haven't mentioned it to him yet as I know he'll say "They're confused!" and it's impossible to discuss something with someone who is denying the whole situation.

My partner says it's a waste of time him being there and that he should leave and get a job but my son wants to stay. I don't think he wants to stay because he wants to do the work though. He likes the social aspect of college life. He has much more freedom now that he is 16 and not at school and goes out straight after dinner most week day evenings and is out most of the weekends but I do try to insist he's home before 10.30pm. He also has a part time job but they only call when they need him so it's only ever a couple of Saturdays or Sundays a month.

We have said repeatedly that if he doesn't pull his socks up then he'll have to leave the college but he says we want to ruin the rest of his life by not letting him do A Levels but his report put him on course for D grades and that's only if he isn't given the "Non entry status" threatened!

Is it reasonable to think that at some point we say enough is enough and at what point do we say it?

My ds is studying 4 Alevels and theres no way hes able to go out after college his workload is way to much hes studying til late most nights.

Can you short sharp shock him by getting application forms for supermarkets and mcdonalds??

Agree that if you live at home, there shouldn't be any doubt as to who's in charge, however small that person!
. Just that your authority needs to be either well-established already or linked to something that the child can understand and relate to.
Do as I ask or...will be the consequence.
OP has her hands full if he's weaselling his way out of working or handing in stuff, and he won't cope well in the real world if he lacks self-discipline.

Haha "Breaks the lightswitch. Lives in the dark." If only! If we didn't have a 3 year old in the house we might have considered it. He smashed it to pieces though so there was a gaping hole in the wall with wires hanging out so something had to be done.

Saying no is so hard because all his friends seem to be able to come and go as they please and he thinks I'm Dickensian and out of touch by wanting him home before pub throwing out time at weekends. Clipping his wings on week nights is something I'd like to do and possibly something to talk about if I get a meeting with the college arranged. It would be great if one of the teachers could back me up about there being work to do on a daily basis.

He does have a job but at the moment they just call when they need him. We don't give him any spending money (We just don't have it to spare) but he helps DP out at work sometimes and earns himself £40.00 a time so he tends to ask if he can help out when he's broke which we don't mind. He doesn't really talk about Uni. It's just something we've/he's always thought of as the natural next step. He wants to be a film director.

Is it possible that he is not lazy but that he finds it really difficult to get things down on paper? Foe example;, dyslexics are often extremely able verbally, but when it comes to writing, it is so difficult for many that they effectively give up. It may be that he has developed a persona to help him deal with his difficulties and to cover up low self esteem.

You of course know your son the best, but it is just a thought.

Saying no is so hard I think there lies the root of your problems. If he knows you find it hard to discipline him when he behaves badly then he has no incentive to behave.

Lots of replies there while I was typing that last response. Thank you.

"He is straddling some kind of middle ground and it's not working." You've hit the nail on the head! He hasn't really moved on from school as far as work and homework is concerned but he has expected us to give him much more freedom, which we have done. We're treating like a 16 year old but he's not behaving like one.

Maybe seeing if the college has a councillor is the way forward. I think we need some mediation. I just want someone to tell us what to do and what should be expected of him and for him to either agree to try or maybe get a job for a while and go back into education when he's ready to fulfil what's expected.

This is not, in any way, an excuse for your son's behaviour at college but it does ring bells when I recall the difficulty ds1 and friends had with the initial switch from school to 6th form college. All of them assumed they were now "adults" - boosted by the college timetable that permitted them to come in only when required for classes and the general ambience of independence. Unfortunately, none of them were adults. They were 16 year olds who needed a much more programmed educational system with a greater pastoral element.

His college also phoned as soon as unexplained absences occurred - not helpful when I was working on location - and they said all the right things about the need for good attendance and student support. However, the only person able to make a real difference was the student in question and fortunately, after a term of hanging around playing on the PS and occasionally sending out for snacks, ds1 and some of his friends caught on. The ones that didn't were chucked out at the end of the first year and this is what will happen to the OP's son if he carries on.

Choices are:

1. Let him get chucked out at year end.

1. Consider sending him to a college that has a regime more like school.

1. Look at whether a semi-vocational course that occupies more time doing "real stuff" might be better than A Levels.

1. Make life rather less easy all round.

I would let him stay at college. If he pulls out now he probably won't get a job as it it is very difficult to get one at the moment. So you will only have him mooching around the house. Wehn DD2 was a college she was behind with some of her course work, We had a word with her and then just left her to it. She finished college with 2 A's and a C in her Alevels and is now at university.
If he does mess around to much thn college will tell him to leave.

Sayithowitis ~ Thanks for replying. He was reading at 2 and was in the Gifted and Talented groups in both junior and senior school until he started his GCSEs. He just puts everything off until the last minute. I had considered there being more to it than just laziness but it's very unlikely. His brother who is three years his junior has been tested for dyslexia and labelled as having "A non specific learning disability" so their schools have been pretty good at recognising when there's a problem so I think they would have picked up on something.

What does he want to do in the future?

Seeing a counselor even. I used to be able to spell.

Pikelit ~ That's pretty much our situation at the moment. I hope that college and myself can work together to help him realise that if he doesn't buck his ideas up then he'll be out! I did say to him today that maybe an apprenticeship course is the way to go but he just rolled his eyes. He doesn't want to leave all his friends at college but neither does he want to do the work involved to keep him there. Hopefully the college will be able to help with this.

Mumeeee ~ He does have a job but at the moment he's emergency weekend staff only. He was there full time in the Summer though so hopefully they'd be able to offer him full time work if he did leave the college. I think I'd have to leave home if he was at home all day every day!

PfftTheMagicDragon ~ He wants to be a film director.

I would actually put the ball in his court.

i may well say

Oh we had a letrter from the college but I expect they are confused cos you wouldn't miss lesson.

Then carry on with of course if you don't pass your As level there will be no point in you staying on. I doubt though you would be so silly to fail as you said it would ruin your future.

Then button it.

leave your ds to make up his own mind how he is going to do this.

make it clear it is his choice but a job is onthe cards if he fails.

I don't know why I'm reminded of the saying "Teenagers are your punishment for having sex."

I wish I could do that IvyKaty44 but he knows about this mornings letter now and has given me bullshit his reasons for missing the lessons. College is contacting us almost every three weeks either by letter or phone now so I can't just not say anything as much as I'd like him to sort it out himself.

You see, this is how I thought college would be. I thought he'd take responsibility for himself and that college would be more strict than school and not chase him up like school used to do. I thought they'd give him a couple of warnings in a "Three strikes and you're out" procedure but infact they've just passed the ball to me and I don't know what to do with it.

DS2, 18 months younger than ds1, was always the one predicted to under-perform by his year tutor at secondary school. DS1, in complete contrast was known as "the Professor" and while he has a very good job now and did pass his A Levels, he would have done far better in a more traditional 6th form.

Of the two of them, despite both going to the same college, it was ds2 who went to university and this had everything to do with him taking the right sort of course. In his case a 2-year long A-Level equivalency in Performing Arts & Technical Theatre. The curriculum was hugely interesting and really time consuming and it never occurred to ds2 to piss around missing college.

I offer this experience basically to show that there vocational courses can include more than apprenticeships out and also, that A Levels can often be much more of a challenge to self-discipline at the age of 16!

Here's hoping things pan out for you and your son though. It might well be that he's best taking a break from formal education and going back later when he'll be more single-minded about achieving his long term ambitions.

PS. There is a point when the ball should go firmly back in the college's court and not rest with you. I realise that at 16, there is no legal requirement for further education but there's usually a fairly firm policy about attendance and effort and the college should apply it. I'd speak to them directly and ask what the outcome will be if your son continues as he does.

If he needs money, is he eligible for the EMA? If so, he can't miss a lesson or he loses the week's payment. That might at least get him in class, and then you can work on the coursework element through banning him from going out weekday nigths, I know we certainly weren't allowed out on weekdays, just one nigth at the weekend till a set hour. Have him at the dining room table (or somewhere communal), ban facebook or whatever off the computer through the security settings and get involved in the coursework. Get his deadlines off the college, look at the assignments. Draw up a timetable of work for him (make it realistic, a few hours a night should be fine) and check through it with him. I'm loathe to say incentivise, but sometimes it works. Then if Mon to Thurs he works well, he gets Fri/Sat/both out. Sun is evening off.

Sounds harsh, but this is what we recommend tto students who fall behind at school, the success does in part depend on the parent...we can't do it for them. Once he gets in the swing and starts doing well he might start doing more of his own accord.

I dont think you should insist that he leaves, but perhaps you should just make it very clear that if he continues to mess about/miss deadlines etc, he will be unlikely to be allowed back at the end of the year. Then back off.

He knows better than you do how much he is pushing the boundries and how behind he is. Tell him you will support him in any way you can in order to help him catch up, but he needs to be honest and change his attitude.

He may need to learn the hard way, but that could be the making of him. My son had a very similar attitude to school to the one you describe. He got a bit of a shock when he went into the 6th form, and left (against my wishes) after the first term. He got a job in a supermarket, and predictably hated it. He couldnt wait to get back to college in September and try again and he is now at university.

Nigths?? What is a nigth?? Night

Agree about the benefits of negotiated going out in the evening. At college age - 16 to 18 - we had an agreement that both boys stayed in, at home on Monday to Thursday nights to do college work. The only exception being organised sport. Work done on stay-home nights didn't involve all your friends round til the early hours and a PS either. Friday and Saturday nights plus the early part of Sunday evening, were for enjoying yourself with friends. Agreement worked very well.

My dd who is doing 4 A levels can only manage one or rarely two nights out per week because of the workload and her friends both male and female are in the same boat.
I'd hazard a guess that your ds's friends aren't making the grades either so maybe a chat with his friends' parents about how much freedom is acceptable would help.
It wouldn't surprise me if the lot of you are being fed the same story about X being allowed out longer and later as it's pretty common.

Thanks for replying again Pikelit. It's reassuring to hear that both your boys did well. DS1 was such hard work during his GCSEs. It was a constant battle to get him to do any work and I used to dread the phone ringing during school hours. He messed around, did very little work and absolutely no revision. Despite this his grades were a mix of As and Bs and a couple of Cs. I don't know how he did it! I don't think he knows how he did it but I think he thinks he can do the same with the A Levels. I suppose we shall have to see.

"There is a point when the ball should go firmly back in the college's court and not rest with you." I agree completely. Not because I'm one of those parents who doesn't want to take responsibility for my child but because I think they would have more impact in this instance. I wish they would give him a scare. I wonder if the Principle could have a word with him and say that he's going to keep an eye on things and if there's no change then he's out.

Is it standard then, for colleges to call parents about the work of 16 year olds? I mean, he could be living alone, married even now. You would think that they would be responsible for their own work at the college, at A level and if they don't work, then they get rid of them. I mean, if he's not coming to parents evening....though not even sure why you go to those alone!

I don't know the pastoral arrangement at your son's college but it can't hurt to ask his tutor whether the Principal would get involved. Would your son respect anything he was told though? Or take it seriously? Only the first year of college does seem to enhance the natural arrogance that comes with this age group.

Which reminds me of the poster a friend had in her kitchen - "Teenagers! Why Not Leave Home Now While You Still Know It All?"