to have noticed that Tory voters are more polite on the whole than their left-wing counterparts

[SeaTheStars]

You don't get many lifelong Conservative voters talking about dancing on Michael Foot(e?)'s grave in the style of a rabid working class person talking about Mrs Thatcher do you?

Oh, I think people hate Tony Blair and as time goes by that will become more intense.

And loads of people hate Arthur Scargill if you need an example of someone politically active during the same period as Mrs T.

Michael Foot was especially poor as an example as he wasn't very active, was he?

When people talk of hating Mrs T, I imagine it is of hating her as a symbol of all that was wrong with the tories during that period. And the whole greedy me-me-me culture. Personally, I dislike the Labour party of the time almost as much for being so bloody ineffectual. I have no personal hatred for Margaret Thatcher or any other politicians.

I think it's very rude of you to keep going on about the rabid working class
As well as making you sound stupid, it's very very ill mannered

You're older than me and I clearly remember Michael Foot - donkey jacket at the cenotaph, longest suicide note in history, etc.

totally agree abride . My family and dh's family are all country 'folk' and they despise Labour and they are not shy about saying so!!! Also, slighly racist, and stuck in the dark ages. Makes me cringe.

ah, should have been more obviously a joke the rabid thing

accept it was a rubbish phrase even if did make myself laugh typing it

am probably a notch or two below working class anyway, depending upon how you look at these things

Sorry, that came out wrong...basically i was saying that people i know in countryside have dubious views on some things, not saying everyone who lives in countryside is like that....just to make that clear!!! sorry again before i get flamed!!

Working class doesn't always = labour voter either. My Grandpa was working class (mining family) and a lifelong tory voter - self made man.

He thought Maggie was great!

'Tories are lovely - polite, kind and good to their grannies'...yes I am, or was until my Granny died.

The Falklands - the Armed Forces then were doing what they are paid to do, as they are now in Afghanistan and wherever else they may be serving. We all know that for the grace of whichever God goes our brothers, husbands fathers, but we hope like hell every time they are deployed that it won't be their turn yet.

I was 13 when Mrs Thatcher got in, and can remember the winter of discontent. I can also remember Red Robbo and the overwhelming power of the unions to hold the country effectively to ransom. I was glad when she got in, and broke their power. I note that over the past 13 years it hasn't been reinstated.

I have watched with concern the fingers of the state creeping into all elements of our lives. I believe that there is such a thing as society, but that we can be responsible individuals within that, and make our own decisions. I think that the OFSTEDisation of early years provision is a huge mistake; children should be able to play and not have to meet a set of bloody targets. I think this government has been tick box driven, and lord help you if you don't conform. The tax system has gone from one that was relatively easy to understand to a labyrinthine monstrosity that even those who have worked there for years have trouble understanding. The government want to police where we are, what we are doing, what we are thinking, how we bring up our kids, means test those who need help and use powers that were supposed to deal with terrorists to spy on normal law abiding people.

They now want to have all our children on a database and will retain that detail until they are 24. The data won't be secure and who knows what harm will come from it?

As Abride says, the Government don't give a shit about rural poverty, they are an urban party and it shows. They do not try to learn about what they do not understand. Witness the defence debacle over the last 13 years. Defence, which is one of the main purposes of Government is reduced to a part time sec of state who was so bloody useless it just wasn't true, and now we have some one who wants the Armed Forces to work more closely with the French. Hasn't the stupid bugger realised we do that with NATO and the EUMS anyway?

I despair of this government. They are tired and need to go. Brown started screwing the economy when he was Chancellor and has continued as PM. He cannot and will not admit that he has got it wrong. The sooner this lot goes the better, and it can't be soon enough for me.

Please note that my vituperation (such as it was) was directed at the Government, not the Labour supporters on here. This is not because I am repressed, but polite. I am also mature enough to realise that just as Conservatism is a broad church, so is Socialism; and that we probably have more in common than we realise on how things should be; we just differ in the methods used to get there.

Finding the principles of Conservative politics vile doesn't make people automatic Labour supporters.

And being a Labour supporter certainly doesn't make someone a Socialist!

If anyone has any doubts over what drives Cameron and his ilk, just remember he was attracted into the party in Thatcher's era. He has no agenda other than feathering his own nest (and perhaps decorating it with some Osborne and Little wallpaper..).

Not all the anti-Tory sentiment on here will be coming from Labour supporters - I'm not a supporter of the Labour Govt either and certainly not of the Iraq/Afghanistan war.

The Falklands war was an entirely avoidable conflict that MT used to deflect her massive unpopularity at home - nothing like a bit of jingoism to win an election .

I also wouldn't use the word socialism in connection with the Labour Party anymore - there are very few socialists left in the party.

"He cannot and will not admit that he has got it wrong" - how many politicians will do this?

X-posts!

x-posted with mrschigur!

As for the Belgrano comment - what would you have said had she fired and sunk one of our ships from outside the exclusion zone? Would the RN have been negligent in not sinking her? Would you have regarded that as a war crime? It didn't matter that her crew was conscripted; we don't just wage war with those who have volunteer Armed Forces.

Well, hopefully, one day GB will be remembered with the same level of hatred. As far as I am concerned he is, as well as being the darling of the left, a moronic fascist, a chippy Scot, a control freak, smarmy, sulky, sneaky, arrogant, deceitful, vain, hell bent on centralsing every aspect of our lives whilst tying business up in red tape and trying to suck as much money out of the UK economy/population as possible to be spent on vanity projects like the Millenium Dome.

"A moronic fascist" . Really?

Yer, on a par with Hitler obviously .

And I think you'll find the Millennium Dome was actually the brainchild of Major's government (although why Blair didn't ditch it god only knows).

What's a "chippy Scot"?

Isn't he too busy clinging on with politics to be hawking fish and chips?

Or maybe you don't think people should be in government unless they sound like Dave 'n'George?

I have voted Conservative since I was old enough to vote, but I don't understand what is 'vile' about wanting to give the individual the opportunity to be responsible for themselves and not rely on the state.

I don't think, having watched the excesses of Mr Martin and other Labour MPs, that the Tories were the only ones doing the nest feathering on expenses. Jacquie Smith bent the rules so far you could hear them twanging.

The Falklands was NOT avoidable - the Joint Chiefs didn't see it coming either - should we have just rolled over and said take the islands then? Given the energy resources that have been found there recently, it was a good job we didn't. I would have said that Iraq was avoidable, and Kosovo or are those the elephants in the room? I think Brown is a complete hypocrite about Afghanistan - lets send the Forces out there to fight, but lets have a green paper and look at making them redundant as well.

Oh yeah, GB = Worse than Hitler. It's obvious when you don't think about it.

I didn't specify what was vile about the Tories - and that would not be the first thing that springs to mind tbh. Although the state has a place for lots of reasons - looking after the vulnerable being one of them.

And I missed the post that said the Tories were the only ones cheating with their expenses? No one said that did they? Everyone is more than aware that hundreds of MPs were caught with their hands well and truly in the till - Labour, Tory and LibDem. That is why so many of them are resigning.

Why are Iraq and Kosovo the elephants in the room - I specifically mentioned Iraq in my post so don't understand your point?

To say that Conservatism gives everyone the chance to be responsible for themselves suggests we all start from a level playing field. We do not. Conservative policies ghettoise those who are already disadvantaged by birth, ability or health. I utterly reject a leader (MT) who tells me I am not part of a society and should not concern myself with others.

Just to avoid any confusion, I have never claimed benefits and I am not from a particularly deprived background. I recognise that I am lucky.

I have however benefitted from the NHS. If the Tories get their way people will soon have to make hard choices about healthcare under the guise of "managing their own health budgets."

Slagging off Labour is a red herring because objecting to Tories doesn't mean endorsing Labour.

A chippy Scot - definition: a man who prefers Scotland to England. Please explain to me why the elderly in Scotland get long-term care free of charge, paid for by the State (read: English taxpayers) whereas my Grandmother's home is being sold to pay for her care.

I don't, by the way, think a person's accent has any bearing on their ability to be a decent politician.

Millenium Dome - whoever came up with the idea for it is irrelevant, the fact remains that New Labour pushed the project through and wasted millions and millions of pounds on it. Thinks of the schools and hospitals that could have been built instead.

Well that's the first time I've heard it defined thus.

Scotland has a devolved Government which prioritises it's own spending. It has a more left-wing government which favours community-orientated spending decisions.

Actual MT quote in context:
Speech to Conservative Party Conference (9 October, 1987)
"They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations."

OP - If you remember the politics of the 1980s, do you not remember that at several Young Conservative conferences they sold badges with the slogan "Hang Nelson Mandela"?

Surely that beats your "rabid working class types" in the nastyness stakes?

Hard choices about healthcare are coming whether or not we vote in a Tory government. Don't be so gullible and think that nice, soft cuddly New Labour will save us from those. Although given that dishonesty, spin, manipulation and interference are how this government operates, perhaps you can be forgiven for your naivety. Don't forget that GB as Chancellor changed the economic cycle, redefined public borrowing, and announced then re-announced and then re-re-re-announced the same public spending iniatives.