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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be angry with my 25 yo dd?

80 replies

kaylasmum · 02/02/2010 10:51

My 25 yo dd has ben diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. She has had mental health problems for the past few years and has been seen by gp's,a cpn,a psychiatrist and now she's seenig a psychologist. She has a ds of almost 4 who she cannot handle at all and at the moment he is living with me. He is on the child protection register due to my dd smacking him too hard/much, shouting and swearing at him. Social work have been involved for the past 10 months and they gave her chances to improve her situation but she just could'nt do it.

My dgs was going to be put into foster care but i took him instead. I have 2 young dcs aged 6 and 3 and its really difficult to cope but i don't want to see him in care. He is quite an awkward child and very confrontational and my dc are finding this very difficult to handle, on their own they get on pretty well. Anyway, my life has been turned upside down. My dgs seems to be happy living with me and his nursery has said that they've noticed a difference in him over the last 3 weeks, they say he's more confident and relaxed which is great. The problem is, my dd should be trying everything in her power to get better and to improve her life. I don't feel that she's trying very hard.

She had to see a alcohol and drugs counselor as she would go out every week and get really drunk then spend most of the week feeling depressed and not able to cope with her ds. She is still going out and getting drunk, moreso now because she does'nt have to worry about a babysitter. She has also taken cocaine a few times. During the week she rarely gets out of bed before lunchtime.

I can't help feeling angry with her, i'm doing everything i can to help and running myself ragged while she is out getting pissed and lying in her bed most days. I don't know how she's going to get her ds back if she does'nt start making an effort. I know she has an illness but that does'nt mean she should'nt be trying to help herself get better. I suffer from anxiety and depression and this is starting to take its toll on me.

OP posts:
kinnies · 02/02/2010 10:59

Sorry you are going through this.
How would you feel if your Dd didnt get her Ds back?
Would you take him on as your own?

fernie3 · 02/02/2010 11:02

It sounds like you have every right to be angry with her. It must be very hard watching your daughter throw her life away like this. It doesnt sound like she WANTS to try and get her son back at the moment and it also sounds like he is very much in the best place with you.

If he hasnt been living with you for long then perhaps over time you will settle down into a routine with him?

I would say that it is best to focus on your grandson at the moment and yourself as he is the only one you can help, your daughter has to help herself.

If you spoke to HV she may be able to suggest more help like homestart.

BelleDameSansMerci · 02/02/2010 11:09

I think you have every right to be angry with her and it does appear that she is not able or willing to change her ways. I think you've done the right thing by taking her son into your care. Poor little soul. It must be so hard for all of you to cope.

Hope this doesn't come across too harshly but maybe your daughter doesn't feel (at the moment) that she wants him back? If she has personality and alcohol issues it may be much more than she can or wants to handle?

I think perhaps you need to consider that this is going to be a long term thing for you all...

kaylasmum · 02/02/2010 11:11

Hi, thanks for the quick replies.

If my dd does'nt get her ds back i would have to keep him. foster care is not an option. I just feel sorry for my dcs as its difficult for them. They are'nt getting enough attention and i'm finding my patience is running out so i'm more quick tempered with them that i used to be.

My dd is attending parenting classes but i really wish she would cut down on the drinking and get out of bed and start trying to help herself get better.

OP posts:
MumGoneCrazy · 02/02/2010 11:12

I ws also going to suggest Homestart for some help, i havent used them myself but my HV recommended them to me as i was a 25yr single mum of 4DC (9,4,3 and newborn whose now 18wks) incase i ever felt like i was struggling or needed help or even just someone to talk to.

MumGoneCrazy · 02/02/2010 11:14

Homestart

skihorse · 02/02/2010 11:24

Unfortunately that's the whole "point" of BPD - self-sabotaging/harming behaviour. She can get better but it's going to take time and dedication from her and it's not going to be easy.

A psychologist can help more than a psychiatrist because her problems need to be unravelled, not doped up.

As personality problems frequently stem from a lack of self or family issues I feel it's unfair of you to pile your worries on her right now... perhaps you might be able to discuss with her psychologist how to address them because obviously they can't just be brushed under the carpet.

Best of luck.

skihorse · 02/02/2010 11:26

Btw, I think YABU, she's mentally ill. If it were a physical disability I doubt you'd be so "hard" on her.

SerenityNowAKABleh · 02/02/2010 11:29

I think YANBU to be angry at her - this is very, very difficult for you, your other DCs and your DGS. But, it doesn't seem that she's ready to change or to take control of her life. There's not much you can do to change that. And while you are justified at feeling angry, don't let it control you or become the focus of your life.

But, I think it's amazing that you're willing and able to take your DGS in. It's been a relatively short time, but if he's improving already, who knows what may happen in the coming weeks/months. It's tough now, but hang on in there. What you're doing for her, and you DGS, is phenomenal.

ShiriDoula · 02/02/2010 11:32

I totally agree with what skihorse said- and I am very sorry, but- yes, YABVU.

She has a mental illness, it's not like something she can control or "choose". she is being counselled, but these things take time. Some people don't ever get better. You've made a decision- a truly amazing and important one- and the life of this child depends on you. Stand behind it.

skihorse · 02/02/2010 11:44

Btw, whilst you probably hate me right now for saying "YABU", I am one of the BPD success stories and have been properly cured via extensive therapy (3 years plus worth!).

I now live a very normal life, have a happy, mature, grown-up relationship, full-time responsible job and am expecting my first child.

So receiving a BPD diagnosis is not total damnation - in fact it's great - it means she's found a psychiatric team who took the time to diagnose her thoroughly. The diagnosis has to be done over a period of time and takes literally hundreds of questions - she's really lucky she's in the hands of people who care. It also doesn't mean that she might never be cured. I'm always on these boards advocating that BPD is not a "life sentence".

I don't know what type of therapy she's getting, but Schema Therapy is proven to cure. I did it all 1-2-1 but it's since evolved to include a huge portion of group therapy - apparently we take affirmations better from our peers than from a psychologist. It also takes much less time than my 3 years. However long it takes, it's worth it.

The people most likely to be cured by this therapy are intelligent, pretty (she is!), well educated, middle-class white girls. Sadly the drop-out rate is ~50%, but if she can hang in there, life will get better.

If you've got any questions or maybe your daughter has, please don't hestiate to CAT me and I will give you/her any info/support that I can.

lililolo · 02/02/2010 12:24

I'm sorry, but I think YABU to be angry with your daughter. To be frustrated / angry with the situation, of course. But having BPD isn't her fault, and so neither is her inability to get her life in order.

I totally hope that she gets the help she needs, and that you get the help YOU need because caring for someone with a mental health problem is very, very draining.

CirrhosisByTheSea · 02/02/2010 12:27

I agree that it will probably help if you look at having your grandson as a very long term thing. What your daughter has is a complex thing and for a long time it may appear as if she is doing absolutely nothing to help herself but as long as she continues to have some sort of engagement with some sort of mental health service then there is always hope.

I think you need a long term plan. So that your daughter never feels "oh well I am crap and my ds is doing way better with my mum so I might as well give up" I think she needs to know that everyone is always working towards them being together. but I think you have to take the long view and accept that your current anger, while it is understandable, will have to be put in a box for a long while so that you can keep everything on an even keel.

Do you have support for you? Do you have a partner/husband?

very inspiring post skihorse

minxofmancunia · 02/02/2010 12:36

yanbu for feeling angry and frustrated, howver bpd isn't her fault and you can't force her to be ready to change so on that aspect i would say yabu.

agree with skihorse what a fantastic post!

having worked for a few years with young women who're at risk or in the early stages of bpd, soecifically around reducing deliberate self harm, i'm interested in your post.

am cbt trained and want to specilise in this group by doing further training, the opyions are dbt or schema focussed therapy. do you have experience of dbt, would you say it was helpful?

skihorse · 02/02/2010 12:59

minx I didn't do DBT. The health group I'm in (I got lucky, I believe fate drew me here...) was at the experimental stage with the Psychology dept at the local university (Maastricht) who were teamed with researchers in Manhatten with respect to applying Schema Therapy.

I started the Schema Therapy in the autumn of 2004 it must've been (time flies!) at at that time the approach was 1-2-1 with my psychologist, weekly meetins with a total time of +/- 3 years. The therapy started pretty much as all therapy does "tell me about your mother..." It also involves a lot of "imagine you are a child" (inner child) - which is a Brit is quite difficult to get your head around and I'll put my hands up to putting up a barrier/not playing the game because it just felt all "too American". At that point I was using Efexxor and Zyprexa/Risperdal.

I got involved with some of the research at the university which involved an MRI where upon I was subjected to different stimuli to see if my brain reacted any differently to a "normal" person's brain - I still have the print-outs of my brain. [cool] There were also PhD students who would come by and monitor my progress in response to specific questions over this period of time - it was very satisfying to be able to go from a shameful "er yes, 5 times" in response to a question to a "nope, nope, nope" throughout the entire questionnaire.

At around 18 months in or so, the team told me that they didn't believe I had a depressive disorder as such - it was just the BPD making me feel so ghastly. They wanted me to stop taking the meds so that the psychotherapy could really reach me. I was absolutely terrified, but the team were on call 24/7 - in fact there's such an amazing system in place that if I'd wanted to I could've had someone come and pick me up at 3am to just take me to the psychiatric hospital just for a chat, I could've just sat in reception. However, being BPD of course I never asked for help!

Approaching 3 years my improvements were fast and significant, these weekly meetings went to fortnightly, then monthly, then quarterly. I still have the option of going back of adhoc sessions - in fact I'm thinking of doing so because I am freaking out about being pregnant/a parent - although I gather this is completely within the realms of "normal".

My psychologist told me that they'd started working with group therapy in addition to the 1-2-1 and were finding that it goes much faster - as I said before apparently the patients talk to each other quite firmly but very supportively. When someone says something negative about themselves there's the whole group to say "no way! don't you dare say that about yourself, it's not you, it's X" - at the same time it is realistic. I questioned whether this would be healthy - it occurred to me that there might be some form of "one-up-manship" - you know, "who's cut the most this week?" type stuff. But he assured me that absolutely was not the case - and that anyone they felt who was potentially manipulating the others in such a manner was swiftly removed from the group.

I have BPD associates who've done DBT - and tbh the results are not amazing. Because they're taught how they should handle problems as opposed to re-programming the psyche they seem doomed to make these mistakes - because of course, under stress all logic flies out of the window. One in particular has nothing ahead of her but a life full of meds, intermittent suicide atteempts and regular admittances to her psych ward.

I know I'm biased... but I can't imagine being where I am without Schema Therapy.

kaylasmum · 02/02/2010 17:09

Thanks for all the supporive messages, they mean a lot to me.

skihorse - I think your post is a bit harsh, i have been completely supportive of my dd for years now. And yes i know she has a mental disability, i suffer from mental health issues myself so do understand, but i know that she has to try to help herself. She has missed cpn, psychiatric and other important appointments in the past. My 23 yo ds has mental health problems and went through an incredibly difficult time with self harming and suicide attempts. I supported him as i have his sister.

Also i am NOT piling my worries on her! Where do you get that idea? I'm concerned about my dgs future and my dcs.

Do you have mental health issues yourself? And you don't need to mention to me about physical disabilities, my father had ms and i cared for him for the last few years of his life. You don't know all the details, i've put up with a hell of a lot from my dd and have always been there for her no matter what.

OP posts:
skihorse · 02/02/2010 17:16

kaylasmum If you read all my posts on this thread - all will be revealed.

kinnies · 02/02/2010 17:31

Kaylasmum,
Whilst I do feel sorry for you, I am worried that your DGS might pick up on negativity about the situation.
Can you get any support from SS?
Maybe you are not the person to help your Dd, you do come accross quite angry and dismissive of her illness.
Mental illness is hard on everyone. I'm not trying to be mean to you, just giving an outside view.

kaylasmum · 02/02/2010 17:40

I am not in the least bit dismissive about her illness, in fact i'm very supportive. My dd laughs about her illness and says things like "its because of my illness" for any little thing. I don't show anger towards her, i try to help and support her. I just feel that she has to start helping herself. There is no magic cure as i'm very well aware.

OP posts:
kinnies · 02/02/2010 17:54

I hope her treatment works for her and she starts to take responsability for her health soon.
sounds like you are doing everything you can. The rest is up to her mental health team and her.
It must be hard not knowing a time scale - how long you have to look after DGS, how much longer your Dd will be ill ect.
Anyway, best of luck to you and your family.

skihorse · 02/02/2010 19:32

Sadly kaylasmum I imagine you are dismissive of her illness - in the same manner you dismissed my postings before actually reading my story - if you have even done so to date.

But to answer your specific question as to which "worries" you are "piling on her", these are specifically that you are demanding she take responsibility and win back her child.

Of course she needs to start helping her - but she certainly doesn't need your criticism - and whilst you claim that you don't display anger towards her, she will be acutely aware that this is how you feel. This bitterness - as you've displayed here today.

This is exactly the same as the parents who claim that the kids don't know they're fighting... the kids know. BPD patients process information as though they are children. She may be 25, but emotionally she's "7".

It strikes me that you are also very angry that I've challenged you - what you really seem to have wanted was 50 people to say "yeh babes".

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 02/02/2010 19:37

Goodness. Firstly well done for looking after your DGS. I'm sure you know that the outcomes for him will be far far better from living with you than in foster care. If they decide that he will not be returned to her you should consider looking to get a residence order in order to gain PR.
I also hope that you are being considered as a 'kinship carer' and getting an allowance from your SS office. If the alternative is foster care then they should be supporting you and hopefully there will be a family & friends team who can offer you some practical support, as well as your DGS's SW. There is a budget for support so ask for it.
As far as being angry with your DD - it is a natural reaction but to be honest some people just cannot do what it takes to be a good enough parent. That doesn't mean they never can, but at that time it might just be impossible for various reasons. Your DD is mentally unwell and has substance misuse issues and to expect her to radically alter her behaviour in those circumstances might be a reasonable expectation - but it also might be impossible. Try not to focus too much on your anger and concentrate on parenting all your DCs. You are doing a great job.

JeremyVile · 02/02/2010 19:47

You are doing something really wonderful, I'm sorry it is impacting on your own children.

Fwiw, I dont think aibu is the right place for your thread, you dont need complete strangers picking holes in your choices/ attitudes or whatever - you need good support through this difficult time and a safe place to vent.

Of course you are not being unreasonable - I can only imagine how stessful this is for you.

WhatNoLunchBreak · 02/02/2010 19:50

I tend to second skihorse here, knowing few of the facts. But for me it hinges on what seems to be an expectation that your daughter should be trying to do better.

You can't reason with a mental illness - I have first-hand, up-close knowledge of this. It often doesn't bend to reason or logic, it frequently doesn't see "sense", and it is seldom simple for the person involved to start to help themselves.

If anything is going to happen to pull your daughter out of this, it is going to take time ... and a hell of a lot of understanding, forgiveness, and restraint. I think you'd have to be a saint to be able to negotiate all this perfectly - hence your post here, I think. So ultimately it's also about giving yourself the time and understanding to ride this through.

Best of luck.

Besom · 02/02/2010 19:58

Kaylasmum - I think you should maybe ask to get this moved to the relationships topic?

I agree with Jeremy Vile. You need support for yourself at this terribly stressful time. Your venting your feelings is entirely understandable.

I think it is fantastic you are doing this for your gs and dd.

Have you tried support from any carers organisations?

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