to be angry with my 25 yo dd?

[kaylasmum]

My 25 yo dd has ben diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. She has had mental health problems for the past few years and has been seen by gp's,a cpn,a psychiatrist and now she's seenig a psychologist. She has a ds of almost 4 who she cannot handle at all and at the moment he is living with me. He is on the child protection register due to my dd smacking him too hard/much, shouting and swearing at him. Social work have been involved for the past 10 months and they gave her chances to improve her situation but she just could'nt do it.

My dgs was going to be put into foster care but i took him instead. I have 2 young dcs aged 6 and 3 and its really difficult to cope but i don't want to see him in care. He is quite an awkward child and very confrontational and my dc are finding this very difficult to handle, on their own they get on pretty well. Anyway, my life has been turned upside down. My dgs seems to be happy living with me and his nursery has said that they've noticed a difference in him over the last 3 weeks, they say he's more confident and relaxed which is great. The problem is, my dd should be trying everything in her power to get better and to improve her life. I don't feel that she's trying very hard.

She had to see a alcohol and drugs counselor as she would go out every week and get really drunk then spend most of the week feeling depressed and not able to cope with her ds. She is still going out and getting drunk, moreso now because she does'nt have to worry about a babysitter. She has also taken cocaine a few times. During the week she rarely gets out of bed before lunchtime.

I can't help feeling angry with her, i'm doing everything i can to help and running myself ragged while she is out getting pissed and lying in her bed most days. I don't know how she's going to get her ds back if she does'nt start making an effort. I know she has an illness but that does'nt mean she should'nt be trying to help herself get better. I suffer from anxiety and depression and this is starting to take its toll on me.

I don't feel OP is BU at all considering what she has to deal with on a daily basis. She is entitled to feel angry and frustrated and not be criticised for doing so.

She is dealing with 3 under fives, one of whom is on the child protection register. That is exhausting in itself even if everything else in your life is 100% great.

On top of that she is trying to support her adult daughter who is behaving in a way that is upsetting and challenging, to say the least. People who are mentally ill are difficult and draining to deal with, and as with a physical illness, a mental illness is not carte blanche to act out without fear of consequence.

OP isn't a saint FGS! Please show some empathy.

Kaylasmum, I think you may get more help and support posting in another area?

I think kaylasmum posted on the wrong board just now ... here is a response from her - I think to skihorse's last post

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=am_i_being_unreasonable&threadid=906019&pagingOff=1#18436940

Kaylasmum, it is early days yet. Both for you, in getting used to having responsibility for another child, and for your daughter.

She is ill, look upon her as a patient. Read skihorses tremendous posts.

But, it is hard to go from one to two children from two to three, etc, whether the child joins your family as a newborn or as a 4 year old. You need to look upon this as a transition period, and take it in your stride. It will be worth it, as you will soon get used to it. Think what a massive difference you are doing to one little person!

In response to that post:

i) I am not BPD, I was BPD

ii) She is using a) impulsive behaviour and b) drink and drugs to "self-medicate" her emotions. She does not know any other way. If you for example barricade her in the house she'll binge & vomit, cut herself, bang her head against the wall or whatever. She's experiencing feelings she cannot understand, evaluate or make a sensible, logical decision upon.

You can't, as you should know, cure mental illness by saying "stay in to night poppet and act sane".

Btw, I just wanted to say thank you to all of you who've read my posts on this subject matter and appreciated them. I hope they can bring hope to anyone suffering, or knowing someone suffering from BPD.

Kaylasmum you aren't a bad person but you need to do some reading about mental illness and BPD. At the moment I think you are kind of seeing it as if she is making it up or putting it on. She isn't - but she's probably actibg very selfishly and it might seem so.

Please try to concentrate on your young DCs and stop being so angry with DD. It won't do any good.

I do understand your POV skihorse. I know very little about BPD myself and found your posts to be very enlightening and intelligent.

I think though that the OP is in need of support to deal with this very stressful situation and perhaps feels she is being 'told off' for having what are entirely understandable emotions and feelings.

Um, emotions and feelings being the same thing obviously!

Good luck to you and your daughter OP. Do think about posting in another area for support. AIBU can be very confrontational.

Hi there, this is Leanne Here, Kaylasmum's daughter that everyone is discussing. I just want to straighten a few things out. I feel that some people are treating my mum very unfairly on here and she should have posted on relationship board as she would have had more understanding.

First off, i just want everyone to know that i do want my son back, he's mine and i miss him terribly, even though i see him every day, its not the same as having him at home. I feel i have completely failed him as a mum. I also can't believe more people are not angry at me for the way i have treated my son. I may have a mental illness, but he is just a tiny wee boy who has been through a lot because of me. I totally regret this horrible situation and i try hard not to think about it too much because it hurts so much.

I am doing things to help myself though. i see an alcohol counsellor weekly and they have referred me onto alternative therapy (bio energy) which i have also started. I attend parent classes on a wednesday night, even though i'm not finding it that helpful. I'm also seeing the psycholgist, who proffeses to have me "cured" within 6 months, we shall see! I also have an appointment with a financial advisor tommorow to sort out the mess of my debts.

But i do things which may counteract this, which is what my mum is upset about. I get bored at weekends and like to go out with my friends and have a drink. I try so hard to keep myself in, but i find it impossible, because my friends are always out! And once i'm drunk, if someone offers me coke, its really hard to say no. At that moment i am selfish. I am not thinking about the fact my mum is slogging her guts out to look after her own kids and mine. I just think, "ach, its fine, just one more drink or one wee line".

But the truth is, the longer i keep doing these things, the longer it is going to take to get my son back, and thats the very thing that is depressing me, not having my son. Its a vicious circle. I feel that if anyone is at fault here, its me, and also the professionals around me. My psychologist can only see me every three weeks, even though i beggd to be seen weekly to speed up my recovery. And i have been offered DBT but not til June. For me that is not soon enough, i want my son back as soon as possible. Its so painful when he asks, "mummy are you better yet?", because he wants to come home. I could go on about the shortcomings of mental health support, but i'd end up writing a novel!

Finally, i just want to give some praise to my mum as she certainly deserves it. If it was'nt for her, my son would definatley be in care and i'd be much, much worse mentally because of that. I have put her through so much since i was 16, from slicing my arm open and confronting her with it, to having ecstasy tablets in her house within reach of her young daughter, when she was good enough to let me live woth her as i had been chucked out my flat. She has lent me money countless times, most of which i've never had to pay back, listened to my suicidal rantings, even had to come to hospital when i took OD when i was 20. I have even asked her permission to commit suicide, can you imagine what that must be like for a mother? And through all this she has remained the main support in my life, where some mothers may have broken down or washed their hands of the child.

There are many, many other things which i have put her through, as has my brother, who has psychological problems,(and yes, is genetic) and she has stood strong through it all. I think she deserves a massive pat on the back, and a medal, flowers etc, need i go on?! I know i have a mental illness and it is a real problem, but she is also a human being not an robot, and has as much right to feel emotions as anyone else, especially as she has mentioned that she herself suffers from depression and anxiety. These problems have not stopped her helping me, my brother and my late grandad. I think she is amazing and if were not for her i'd probably be in a much worse state, possibly even dead.

Skihorse, thanks for your support and i feel it would be useful to talk to you, but you must bear in mind that BPD has many facets and we are not all the same. I have not cut myself in 9 years, i do not binge eat or vomit or bang my head against walls. There are 9 pointers to dignose BPD and you only have to get 4 to be diagnosed. This leaves a lot of room for variety. I got 8 in case anyone is wondering!

hi Leanne. I'm really sorry to say that your post hurt me because I feel that you've been coerced in to echoing somebody else's worries and fears. I wonder what your therapist would make of this thread...

Of course I know there are 9 diagnostic areas within the BPD schemas. I too fulfilled 8. I gather you've done a lot of research in to this disorder and you're probably well aware that it's been re-labelled to "Emotional Instability Disorder" - indicating that it's a disarray of emotions rather than your personality somehow being "wrong". In addition, you'll also be aware that there might be some genetic disposition - environmental factors also play an enormous part.

To be brutally honest I think your mum needs a little therapy too because I think she's manipulating situations to her own advantage. You are ill and yet she's got you to come on here and say that you're the bad one and she needs your sympathy.

Best of luck for the future.

No Skihorse, i'm terribly sorry but you are wrong! You are stereotyping me, imagining that i am stupid enough to let myself be manipulated! I like to think i am quite intelligent and i have my own mind, and i have come on here of my own free will, sorry if that disappoints you! The fact that a post from a complete stranger can "hurt" you, puzzles me, as i did not even say anything nasty! Its actually been relabelled Emotionally unstable personality disorder. But although i am ill, i am still an adult human being with responsibilities! I actually feel like you are treating me like a fool! I have a right to express my own opinion! And my therapist, as i 've already mentioned, is'nt that much use! Apart from the time gap between appointments, he has a penchant for foul language which makes me uncomfortable. FYI my mum has had therapy for the aforementioned mental illness that she has experienced and i just don't get why you want to lay all the blame with her, perhaps you have had a bad experience with your own mother? I don't mean that offensively but i'd just like to understand why you are so angry at my mum? i understand that you went through a horiffic time with your illness but just because you suferred with it, does not make you an expert on all BPD patients. And when you say "fulfilled 8 as well", you make it sound like an achievement! I find this illness to be a horrible affliction.

Oh, and if you want to talk about environmental factors, that may be down to the fact that my iraqi father left me when i was 3, and i feel sad about this and like a whole half of me is missing.

If you want to lay blame, lay it at his feet, if you can find him!

I'm just so annoyed that you think i have been "co-erced" and made to write my first post. It came from the heart and i am upset that you took it so lightly, i thought you of all people would of understood how i felt.

Kaylasmum's daughter...

Well done for posting, you were very brave. Skihorse obviously has her own spin on things and has real experiences which are valid. However I have to say she's a bit....forthright sometimes, she followed me round the boards to tell me I was obviously unhappy with my husband based on 5 or 6 posts in 9 months....it made me feel really crap too so if she has made you feel crap try to put it in perspective.

Well done for making the effort. You are going in the right direction. As long as you see your DS when you say you will and do your best to get well for him you are doing your best for him. You are fortunate in having such a supportive mother and I hope in time your family will get better.

Sorry but as somebody who was also diagnosed with BPD that has now finished counselling and doing very well, I have to say that the fact that your mum even showed you this thread was manipulative.
I don't think Skihorse was saying that you are stupid enough to 'let' yourself be manipulated, I think you are taking this the wrong way.

We have both been where you are, I used to feel the whole world was out to get me and used to end up doing very self destructive things such as drinking until I couldn't drink any more, having unprotected casual sex, drugs, self harm.... I was lucky to have very supportive parents who managed to pull me through the other side.

It is lovely that your mum has taken your son in, but she seems to be holding it over you rather than letting you recover. If her intention was to just let you recover, then she wouldn't have shown you this thread just because people were disagreeing with her.

I won't be able to reply straight away but will be back soon

Kaylas mum - what an awful situation for you. You do sound like a very troubled family It sadly becomes a vicious circle without intervention.

You can only do what you can do - you have taken on your DGS which is fantastic. You must not let him sense your resentment. Are the SS giving you any support, as you say you have your own children who are his age so it must be very odd for them.

Someone mentioned HOMESTART - please give them a ring, they are brilliant.

It must be very frustrating for you with your DD, i would like to bet that yes, she is blaming stuff on her illness, using it as an excuse BUT, is that part of the illness itself. I have suffered with anxiety and depression and have definately been guilty of using that as a shield - that doesn't make me a bad or lazy person.

I am loathe to say this, but of course, you taking on your grandson, which was the only thing you could do, absolutely stand by that - but you are enabling your DD to continue with her behaviour because she knows that you are there picking up the pieces every single time. Ultimately, the lad wont be taken into care because you are there and you are bearing the brunt of all of the pressure. She can take the "easy" option. Maybe you should talk about a time when you are no longer able to care for your GS, even though you know that wont happen - but make it sort of official that after a certain date you will have to release him to foster care?

I sympathise with you all - yes, of course your DD is ill and she can't help that - its not her fault, and her illness will prevent her from getting help. She probably doesn't turn up to the psych meets because she is scared? I have had counselling and i had to force myself to go until i felt in control of it.

FWIW AIBU was the wrong place to post - this needs to be in mental health.

I would suggest that you arm yourself with as much info as you can about BPD, talk to people like skihorse who's experience is invaluable as she will have some insight into how your DD is processing what is going on around her.

I wish you the best of luck xx

kat That's not true. I did not follow you - I have no interest in your in general. I stated at the time that for some reason your message "headers" caught my attention and once again, allow me to re-iterate that nobody in this world reads each and every single thread on these boards. If you continue to tell untruths about me I will ask that your posts be removed.

I have nothing to add to this thread as it's rapidly deteriorating - and I can't even bring myself to read what Leanne has written.

I find it really upsetting to be in a position to be able to relate my very real, very positive experiences and find that these are dismissed (second time this week actually wrt BPD) - I end up hiding the threads.

Once again Leanne, best of luck.

I'd changed to my "borderline" name to post on another thread and then saw this one.

Skihorse - I'm about a year into therapy now and wondered if you would mind if I CAT you sometime? I find your story quite inspiring!! Like you, the relief of the diagnosis was something I really felt - now I knew why I was the way I was.

To kaylasmum and Leanne, I wanted to say hi and it does seem like you are going through the mill right now. I'm lucky in that I have a fabulous dh to help with our 3 kids who are a bit older, but I've been there with SS and its very stressful - our kids weren't ever put on the register and it was stressful!

I don't want to suggest things too much - but it sounds like you are not getting the help you need Leanne. Any psychologist who says they can "cure" you of anything is wrong. And to say you can have a cure for BPD in 6 months? - sorry, she's talking out of the wrong end saying that. Either she has no experience of BPD or is a fool. And why is she saying she can cure you if you are also getting DBT in June - sounds wierd, like the services are not at all joined up, tbh. Can you find out who is co-ordinating your care (its my psychologist who does it for me) and find out what's happening.

I still dont talk about my PD on MN under my regular name and don't know when I will feel free to as there are some people who don't really understand and I've read some nasty comments - just to warn you.

Oh, and just one little word of advice from an old hand - separate out your accounts and get a nn each - its polite and easier for people to follow

leanne I hadn't read your post before i posted. How very brave of you.

You are obviously a very intelligent and articulate woman, that comes across in your post only too well.

You musn't blame yourself for your illness, and your mum musn't blame herself either. Your father does sound like he has alot to answer for

Will just mention the HOMESTART thing again, they are volunteers, totally non biased, usually mums who know how hard it is to bring up LOs. I don't think they have any particular experience with mental health issues, however lots of the mums have had PND so will be very understanding. They do things like play groups, support groups, one to one volunteers who will come to your home and look after the liitle ones while you wash up etc, play with the kiddies while you get a bath - that sort of thing. Your mum would really benefit from that sort of help im sure.

I hope that you get what you need from your therapy. I have to admit, i went to parenting class once - totally voluntary, something to do on a wednesday morning - meet other mums. I went twice. What a patronising crock of shit! It didn't even scrape the issues of the REAL issues of parenting. Just made people feel shit about their own parenting. However that is just my opinion.

One other thing? You say you are seeing a financial advisor re your debt? Are you sure that is the best road to go down? Only because i have some serious debt problems myself and i am being supported by the National debt line. Google their number, but be sure that its the National debtline you go through - their advice and help is free and inbiased. I would be a bit worried about being bullied into "solutions" by a non biased financial advisor. Good luck with that - i know how debt is the most vile thing to deal with. Its like a black cloud over my life just now. BUT we are getting through it, and i believe you will too.

Good luck xx

lematthedogs

what terrible advice! For one thing, both the OP and her daughter are participating on this thread so making an empty threat is pointless. Secondly, I really don't think that someone else ever caring for your child is the 'easy option'. All that a threat to put him in care would achieve would be to make the OP's DD feel even worse, even more guilty and not help her recovery at all. A child's wellbeing is not something to mess with, even as a bargaining tool.

Showing your daughter this thread is horribly manipulative and objectively wrong. Your issues to do with the situation are YOURS to work out and get help for. SHE should NOT be YOUR support and trotted out to defend how hard YOU have it, how "bad" she is, and therefore what a saint you are.

What kind of person does that? Why do you think it's okay to complain about her in a thread and then show her the thread because you are the one being "picked" on. You are reinforcing that it's all her fault, after all, you apparently don't care that she reads the negative things you have said about her to complete strangers hoping for validation. You have got her to collude with others that it is right and fair that she is the fuck up and you are the victim who deserves praise and support. You are her mother and you will have contributed to this, it won't have happened in a vacuum.

I am sorry you percieved my post as terrible kat. Maybe it wasn't the best advice in the world, but i am just trying to offer my opinon on things that might work.

Although, actually, after reading the DDs post (which i hadn't read before i posted) It is clear that whilst the OP in her anger, depicted her DD as a bit of a spoilt teenager almost (i have one of those so was probably wearing my mother of wayward teen hat) It is clear that this is not the case with Leanne.

borderliner You are more than welcome to CAT me anytime. The offer goes to anybody else out there who wants advice/support/chat about BPD.

I'm going to hide this thread now but if anyone seems someone else who is in the "wars" about this topic, please don't hesitate to give me a shout and I'm happy to repeat my story.

(I'm cured, doesn't mean I don't still get hurt. )

lematthedogs

what terrible advice! For one thing, both the OP and her daughter are participating on this thread so making an empty threat is pointless. Secondly, I really don't think that someone else ever caring for your child is the 'easy option'. All that a threat to put him in care would achieve would be to make the OP's DD feel even worse, even more guilty and not help her recovery at all. A child's wellbeing is not something to mess with, even as a bargaining tool.

Lemeathedogs did say she posted that before reading the daughters post.

Skihorse, I don't have cat but anyone wanting to talk about this more are welcome to email me at...

[email protected]

I'm shocked at this thread.

I'm amazed that you would this thread to your DD. MN is the right place to seek support, and to vent, but to show your daughter is unforgivable.

I also think that the way you spoke to skihorse was unacceptable. She shared a very personal story in order to help you and you completely over-reacted.