re sex education for young children. Or rather, for MY young child

[everyonesanamechanger]

Name changed. Am going to check if it's worked before posting more!

when i was a child we were never told about erections - i could NOT for the life of me work out how a boys penis could be dangled into my vagina?? did i have to do a headstand? did he? - partial information can be very confusing

also, it's not very long before he'll come across simulated sex on tv - nothing explicit but people entwined under the covers in a film or tv drama... it may be confusing if he doesn't know that is a subtle way of indicating they're having sex.

Can I just say that bethylou's post seemed really helpful and relevant to the OP's circumstances -- and yet nobody has bothered to acknowledge it because everyone is getting distracted by the nonsense about this video being the equivalent of paedophile grooming?

I didn't say that children shouldn't be told about sex. Nor did I say that sex was disgusting or abnormal or whatever else I'm being accused of.

Nevetheless, I do find it interesting that apparently similar activities (showing porn - ok, very soft porn) can be either state sanctioned or punishable by imprisonment, depending on the context. And given that one of the reasons paedophiles often show pornographic images to his victim is to "normalise" sex, is it not at least possible that showing videos like the one linked to earlier schools might contribute to the ever-growing pressure on our children to be sexually active at an ever-younger age?

And, of course, sex - between adults - is a "normal" activity. The paedophiles goal in using pornographic images is to help persuade his victim that sex per se is "normal" and so break the victim's inhibitions.

Er, but sex is normal.

You can misuse lots of different types of imagery in order to manipulate people. Hence advertising, political campaigns, etc all working. It's not the imagery at fault, it's the purpose people put it to. Your argument holds no water.

Sorry, wasn't being clear, I do see you are saying sex is normal.

But the argument that this type of content, in itself, will make children feel pressure to have sex that's where it falls down that isn't anyone's goal in showing it in schools. It is presented with entirely different goals in mind.

I'd say the more normal they think it is, the less potential for anyone to exploit the sense of mystery and inappropriateness that often surrounds sex in the minds of kids.

I am probably x-posting but just to say I am off to bed and am resolving not to get drawn any further into off-topic arguments, as I have a feeling SLB and I will not see eye to eye

OP, I wish you good luck with all this, clearly a minefield

I rememeber when I saw my first full on erection..it was a black and white picture in sex ed class..I was about 12 and it was a Catholic girls school too!...sometimes I wonder if some people who say they didnt receive sex ed were too busy laughing or bunking for any information to set in?

TheFirstLady - I did not compare them to grooming - someone else made that point. I just pointed out that to some more sensitive folk, the sex ed vid looks like porn.

eggontoast - I didn't mean you, I meant SLB. I was replying to your post replying to my post replying to SLB's post, er, I think that was it anyway. Sorry for any confusion.

Dorothea - I'm glad if you got what I was trying to say, even if you don't agree

Ever heard about unintended consequences? These days, the word "virgin" is used in playgrounds as an insult.

I've yet to see any convincing evidence that early sex education in schools is beneficial for our children.

Anyway, I have unintentionally hijacked the thread - apologies to OP.

I would guess that the school ought to provide a differentiated curriculum for this topic as much as for anything else.

I used to teach teenagers with complex needs including ASD, a big part of the SRE was helping the parents come to terms with puberty. We also have had to cope with boys beginning to learn about what you might call solitary pursuits, which is always a challenge.

Does your son respond well to social stories? I have taught SRE through the medium of anatomically correct (including comedy mustache) puppets and dolls, they can be useful in rehearsing scenarios etc. Being there as a sounding board, letting kids know what is OK and what is not is also useful. Pictorial sequences of events might help too (to get the idea across that most adults don't have sex straight away after meeting, that there are social expectations around it etc.

slb - I think the thread has wandered on and off the point for some time, but thankfully, as per their earlier post, the OP has gained what they wanted to gain from their post.

TheFLady - I know it is very confusing. Plus, with kids to get to bed, partner's to talk to, washing up etc. we all lose the thread so easily!

I watched that youtube video and honestly fail to see the problem for most kids (the OPs son may be different though, so fair enough). I actually though it very cute. It was clear that it was an activity for adults, that it should be loving and fun for both parties and that it was nothing to be ashamed of.

My family are extremely liberal, and went by the "answering questions when they are asked" approach. When i did sex ed (in Year six) I discovered I had picked up various odd ideas that I hadn't asked about because I didn't know they were wrong, for example. (EG I thought I knew all about periods, but I thought they were a little brown stain, a bit like a skidmark, that came out of your vagina right on cue once a month with maybe a slight belly ache to tell you you weren't pregnant. Without sex ed, I would have been REALLY alarmed when mine started just a few months later) I also think it very helpful for children to be told that, eg, being gay is nothing to be ashamed of and that to masturbate is normal in order to stop an awful lot of heartache for kids who most probably are wrestling with those problems privately already. I think I am very relaxed and happy when it comes to sex (and my body, gender identity and sexuality), and credit a lot of that to my school as well as my parents.

Although I did get surprised the first time I saw someone ejaculate that you couldn't see the tadpoles

for a 7-9 yr old ?..nah too much info cartoon wise...
my daughters both know about periods because they have seen me having one and asked about it..at the time they were 5 and 6 I told them why I have a period..what happens during a period that they are normal and part of being a woman..no biggie.. no toon porn just straight honest talk..

It's normally shown to 9-11yr olds MCP.

Oh ok TFL..thanks swipes brow

The only bit that bothered DD1 was the bit at the end where they showed a woman giving birth. That certainly put them off the idea of sex.

ha!..sensible girl! ..I would still be happier before if it was nearer 11yrs..i knew quite alot about sex from about 10/11yrs and I made up my mind that it was something I wanted to do with someone important to me who respected me..I see no harm in knowledge..but at the appropriate time..

Thanks all for continued input. It is indeed a minefield! So many things to consider with any child. But my particular ciscumstances seem to make me more confused.

Something else, which I have been discussing with my husband and which I failed to recognise but he has made me realise, is the cultural aspect - dh is not from the uk. He feels more strongly than I had realised about this issue.

So now we are back to square 1!

Oh, and the video loaned to me did say that it was for age 7 - 9, it really did! And it was watched by the kids over a year ago! nd y4? They've watched the next one since then! which the school wants ds to see after this one.

So it isn't being shown to 10yr olds - not in this school! It's being shown to what, 8 yr olds? some 9 depending on birthday!

I also wanted to say that I don't blame the school for this, they are following the rules and they truly think my son needs this. I think info yes - this vid no.

Or maybe this vid yes.

Am really examining my own attitudes - both to sex ed AND to my son. Thanks to all your opinions I am getting a broad view.

Does your DH not want him to have sex education?..is it because he is Autistic?..or too young in his opinion?

No, he wants him to have the facts of life, in what he calls a 'decent' way. by this he means not cartoon nookie! . He does come from a different culture, where the idea of teaching children this subject in this way would horrify most people! Well, in any way! They just don't talk about such things! Not that that is a good thing! Not at all. I think no information is very unhelpful. I have never said I want him to know nothing. But I can't get past the bits of this video that I feel are totally inappropriate. But maybe I'm a prude? I jsut don't want a child to see such things. Hell, I won't let my kids watch many music channels because I think a significant number of videos are verging on porn and give a very distorted view of woman!

We both agree that we feel he is too young - if not chronologically, then certainly emotionally - to manage the information unless presented very carefully and discussed at length. And going on past discussions, we are likely to get questions fired at strangers, grabbing of himself, informing people about his penis (oh yes. no fun at the school gate I can tell you!).

But he will soon hit puberty, and needs to know what's likely to happen, in order to understand the feelings he will experience.

I wish I knew what was best.

Everyonesanamechanger, you should post in the Special needs section, im sure there are lots of parents who have already been through the same thing. They have so much helpful advice and lots of experience of ASD.

Did you check out the link supplied to the NAS on this thread. There was some useful info on there too.

Its difficult, i have a son with special needs (likely ASD) he will be 6 in a few months. He knows the word 'sex' but has no idea what it involves. He recently starting making thrusting movements and noises and apparently children in school talk about 'sex' (obviously not the true meaning of it, just that it involves movement and noises)

They do start young, your ds might already know a bit more than you think.

Well...I really think that he does need to be told the information...and it does not have to involve toon porn...investigate books,tapes etc to see if any are suitable for your sons needs and take it slow..cramming information into a mind that is not ready for it is just as damaging as no information at all in some cases...take cues from his questions and just be honest with him...it can be uncomfortable and worrying but he may surprise you..I think you will work it out..your just tentative and want to do the best by your son.

I don't get why any child would need to see a video of 'toon' sex at 9....

but they ARE going to see "porn" sex around that age or a bit older, aren't they?

woudlnt' you rather they had some idea about what "normal" sex is like, before they were "taught" that the boy ejaculates in your face?