To belive that my children are having a great childhood in London?

[mrsruffallo]

Annoying woman at parent and toddler grouip today.
She was noisily proclaiming her intention to leave London before her child turned 5 as it's an awful place to grow up!
I said if not here, where?
There is so much to do, lovely green spaces, much better than being stuck in the middle of nowhere
Turned into quite a lively discussion

Sorry, Chandon, I don't agree that ALL children are colourblind.

When my friend came down to London to visit with her children, her eldest (who was about 5 at the time, and at school) pointed with an outstretched arm, and said "Why is that lady brown?" in a very loud voice. Cue much embarassment and quick explanations and a warning that he would see lots of "non-white" people, etc, etc.

When I ask my children to decribe a child / someone so I know who they are talking about, their skin colour is not the first thing they mention. Maybe because they are so used to seeing so many different colours?

Probably because if you don't live in 'London Surrey' it's a bit of a treck to go in just to have lunch or a drink.

bibbitybobbity, your whole post applies to where I live too and I'm not in London.

"The vast majority of my friends and peers have unfinished slightly scruffy houses, oldish cars and state educated children."

that's my experience in our part of London, too.

But if you read my post, missurrey, that's what I was saying. I was comparing it to Manchester and saying people in Surrey don't just pop into London for 1h. They just don't. That's what I meant by not utilising it. Not in the way that people here use the city. Even in 'london Surrey' it's a faff for an hour or two.

Yes, sorry, should have said places where housing costs are high relative to income. But I was replying to a post which suggested Londoners were unusually prone to consumerism, and that isn't my experience at all, but then I don't move in the circles of the super-rich.

And all I was saying is that's the reason why...it's too far to just pop in.

I've got a scruffy house, oldish car and NO mortgage. Hurrah!

So many generalisations on this thread, it is amazing.

No, it's ok. It's my fault, I'm getting all defensive.
No propblem at all with people who love London. Each to their own! I just really did not like Surrey. But of course, thousands of others do! I just grit my teeth when they think everyone would want to live where they do and how they do if only everyone else could afford it.

That was to bibbitybobbity. Missurrey, I said, people in surrey didn't utilise London the way people here utilise Manchester and you said you disagreed. I was just clarifying and you've agreed.

If we all liked the same thing, life would be Very Dull Indeed. Nothing wrong with feeling passionate about something though and absolutely, each to their own.

Haha redcardi..yes, I'm quite confused myself now!

I disagree that Surrey people don't utilise London. BUT, they don't pop in for lunch really.

I have a scruffy house, a new car (but it's a Kia) and a medium-sized mortgage. So where do I live?

This is bonkers. I liked it better when it was all chimney sweeps and miners, and everyone, North and South, had flat caps in common. Such a social leveller, the flat cap.

Where we live doesn't define us, surelay all of us see things in the places we live that have nothing do do with us: my lifestyle sound very like BibbityBobs, my child goes to an inner-city school in a notorious borough, but he will never stab anyone or join a gang. My Mum lives in a rural coastal village in a part of the country which was v well represented in that leaked BNP list - but she is not a parochial narrow-mineded racist / homophobe and never has been.

We all also make compromises: my area of London is relatively cheap, has good schools, transport, access to good attractions but is absolutely not fashionable or charismatic! My brother lives in a lovely rural area with acces to the sea and great watersports, sailing, fishing etc, cheap houses, no overcrowding - and the schools are v mediocre.

The fantasy life I live is not necessarily in London, but it doesn't include any of the reasons that I HAVE to live in london, (or similiar) either - such as jobs, need to be close to a hospital with the expertise to deal with DS's leg operations, etc etc. So, all things considered, we are in London, and sionce it is where we are, I am making sure it is a great place to bring up DS. I would do the same elsewhere.

er, the bit about the scruffy house was ONLY to counter the accusation that mc people in London are obsessed with bathrooms and kitchens!

eeee, but you do get less for yer brass in London.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I can personally state I would not like to bring up a child in London due to the traffic alone. London sans cars, yes, but its so polluted it makes me cough and gives me black bogies, so hate to think about my baby's lungs there.

Clouddragon - Hebden Bridge is not exactly typical of anywhere else in the UK!

And yes, returning from abroad and living in London, the rest of the UK can seem parochial, particularly as the other parts I tend to visit often are particularly rural as that's where our family live and where we go on holiday. But that's the be expected for any capital city compared with the rest of the country. And it's not necessarily a bad thing as it usually also means that the other places have a stronger sense of identity (eg, Newcastle, Liverpool etc).

On a final note (really must get back to RL in actual London), I would agree with deliakate - the traffic is horrendous and a good reason alone to move out.

"I am making sure it is a great place to bring up DS. I would do the same elsewhere. "

Well said blu. It is possible to give a child a good upbringing anywhere.

And here endeth the thread? Agree, blu.

well, we live in Ham & High territory but only because i was brought up around there. we are def not big spenders (i make practically everything myself as far as i can get away with it - bread, jam, butter, clothes, furniture). however, we appreciate that a mean piece of original design should carry a price tag (even if it is not opne that we would pay) or that cashmere clothing is going to cost more than polyester. it is economics and nothing to do with being in London. I find that there are places outside London such as Winchester and Harrogate which are a lot more in line with some people's perceptions of London

I've also got scruffy homes, dh drives an oldish car and we have NO mortgage. Hurrah!

What a mad thread.

Look, the high speed trainlines will be here soon. Do both. I;m really looking forward to it being only an hour to Manchester AND London. In fact, we could all swap for long weekends.

I love ALL of it. Britain is a fantastic place full stop. It has wonderful historic towns and villages, fantastic vibrant cities, beautiful countryside, wonderful beaches.

The most important thing for bringing up kids is not the view. It's the access to small local networks of like-minds, a bit of place to play and somewhere to visit every now and then to stop you going insane.

And by the way: the countryside is noisy too. I live there(-ish).

very true staranise!

Myredcardigan - you have to admit that the climate is slightly more favourable in surrey compared to the North West. I spent my student days in the north west and my recollection is of rain and more rain!

with enough money.good housing.most places are good enough to raise a child (maybe not larkhall though)

Hear hear Habbibu