To belive that my children are having a great childhood in London?

[mrsruffallo]

Annoying woman at parent and toddler grouip today.
She was noisily proclaiming her intention to leave London before her child turned 5 as it's an awful place to grow up!
I said if not here, where?
There is so much to do, lovely green spaces, much better than being stuck in the middle of nowhere
Turned into quite a lively discussion

Its swings and roundabouts. We moved out though more for the pull factors of where we moved to (beautiful small city with lots of culture and nearby countryside plus family around) than the push factors of London. Love the vibrancy and craziness and the parks are fantastic esp Hampstead Heath.

But... like everywhere there are downsides and for us the downsides were becoming more apparent as DD grew into a toddler. We could only afford a small flat even on a good salary (have gorgeous big house here for same cost as 1.5 room flat in London). We found the fun London things we used to do (galleries etc) really hard to enjoy with a toddler. Also the area - our neighbours were drug dealers and kept dangerous dogs "for protection" . I got a little tired of gangsta rap. The school situation was dire, we were living in one of those areas where there are not enough primary school places friends still living there being allocated grim schools an hours walk away etc. So we moved and are thrilled with where we are but have fond memories of dd's babyhood in the big smoke. And love going back to visit!

YANBU Mind you, I'm a townie through-and-through (grew up in Manchester - loads of music, theatre, etc to keep me entertained). I do worry about the rural idyll. Great for young kids, but what do rural teenagers actually do (prepares to get flamed for suggesting they're all in the local bus shelter sniffing glue - well, at one service per day, you'd hardly use it to wait for a bus would you?)?

It is what you make of it. The London Parks are fabulous, there is always something to do, with great public transport to get there. I would move out so I could afford a larger property but that is the only reason.

Someone said on a thread earlier that children who go to ethnically and racially diverse schools grow up "colour-blind" which I think is a fabulous way of putting it and is certainly the case with my dc. London is great for that.

As someone who lives in the 'sticks', I wish everyone shared your view that London is a great place to bring up children. Then I could stop being green with everytime I watch Relocation, Relocation or Escape to the Country - as there would be no more people moving out to the 'country' and buying a huge house with the proceeds of the sale of a one bedroom flat in central London.

When you visit your friends in the 'country' they just want you to bring some coke... they are bored titless.

I grew up in a supposedly 'shithole' area of London and I still wax lyrical about it.

Yes, there is crime and poverty, but it didn't ruin my childhood and as far as I can see my children are happy, too. I honestly can't imagine wanting to bring them up anywhere else.

I have lots of family and very good friends here, so I suppose that informs my opinion quite massively.

Those country kids will all end up moving here for work eventually anyway

The rural idyll is a myth. I live in a village and it's so claustrophobic i can't breathe. I did live in London prekids and we moved becasue of DHs job not to get away.

Another friend's DH still works in London in the week but she is stuck on an estate on the outskirts of a dodgy town as they thought that was best for the kids. Now she's looking to move back.

The closest thing to culture where i live is the Library Bus and i have to go to our nearest town ALOT and to London once a month to keep in. Village life isn't all it's cracked up to be - if you wear eye liner on the school run here you're the talk of folk...

We chickened out of actually living in the country when we moved from London as I grew up in a village and remember the long grey dull saturday afternoons with absolutely nothing to do. Funnily enough all my schoolfriends who had the same childhood now all live in cities..funny that

Also like the idea of DCs discovering London for themselves when they are in their early twenties.

I'm East too. It's just very mixed, which I like

crow and alice - i love your comment!

London - and indeed anywhere you live - is what you make of it. There are great things to do in London with your kids - and I love that my boys are growing up surrounded by many different cultures, exposed to art and different languages, lots of different parks etc. - but there are also rubbish things (like the dog poo on the streets, teen gangs etc.) as you get with anywhere.

Your kids - and mine - will have a great time growing up in London because we'll make sure they do OP - if the other mum doesnt like London, the likelihood is her kids wont either..

We left 6 months ago. I was there 9 years, I hated it - stifling is the right word. But I lived in a horrible area (needles in the swing park, lots of trouble). Schools were OK but battling against parents who had no work ethic, and saw no reason to not send their kids to school, so standards were low.

The plus sides are many, but eventually the negatives outweighed them. The museums and parks are amazing, and I do miss the cultural stuff. TBH though, most mums I knew in London rarely if ever took their kids into the centre, so my kids will probably still get to see more of the good bits than their peers when we go and visit PIL.

Love living in London, tons for the kids to do, lots of green space etc etc BUT and it's a big but, schools are a real issue where we live - primary are fine but there are no secondary schools - and I'm not being precious in a there's-a-school-but-it's-not-good-enough-for-my-darlings, there really are no state secondary schools where I can guarantee that my children will get a place. The only reasonably local schools (not even close to walking distance) are hideously over-subscribed and church and/or single sex, thereby excluding us. Teh vast majority of people round here go private and if you can't/won't, you have to move, which is what we'll be doing, very sadly.

Steel fairy- I actually grew up in a multicultural part of London and I do agree that you grow up 'colour blind' and are at ease with people from all over the world.

You don't have to grow up in London to be 'at ease' (lol) with people from all over the world.

Dh and I are both not from London but have no problems with bringing dd up here.

We did think about moving home when we had her because parents etc were all saying "oooh London..." but we know loads of people who were brought up here and they're all completely normal and lovely.

In fact, there's something, I don't know, "wordly" about people from London that I think is quite admirable.

YANBU - I grew up in London and am happily bringing my dcs up in pretty much the same area. Perhaps we have to make a more conscious effort to do outdoors activities than families who live in the middle of nowhere, but since we enjoy spending time outside (when it isn't totally disgusting) we manage to do so on a regular basis! And when the weather is totally vile, I am regularly grateful to have options like the Science Museum, the Natural History Museum, London Zoo and suchlike all within 30 mins of my front door! FWIW, not learning how to ride a horse was probably the only thing I ever felt was a limiting factor of growing up in London and that had more to do with my parents not wanting to pay for riding lessons (would have been perfectly possible locally!) than the city/countryside differential.

Oh...and its a bit extreme, but many years later, at uni, I had a boyfriend who grew up literally in the middle of nowhere, in a cluster of 8 houses, 5 miles from the nearest pub and a 30 min drive from the nearest town. a) He flinched every time he crossed the road for the first year b) He and his 5 siblings felt permanently cut-off from the world and c) he (and they) were very envious of everyone who grew up nearer 'civilisation' and pollution. This despite having their own smallholding, animals etc etc to run around with.

Depends where you live in London and what you earn makes a difference too...I spent most of my life in east London but chose to move to the outskirts when my children were born ..to be closer to family but also because the area was fine for a grown person not so hot for children...I like where I am now practically London...but not quite...dont miss out on anything.

I didn't say you had to surrey, dear, just that is a good foundation for such atitudes

I am a bit sceptical of these optimistic "colour-blind" claims about a London childhood, tbh. Are you saying that racism in mixed schools doesn't exist? There are plenty of mixed schools in areas of the north-west of England, for example, yet a big BNP problem. Does it depend on how middle-class the parents are, do you think?

I grew up in a very rural location and feel utterly miserable being in a town or city
Horses for courses !

mixed schools?

mrsruffallo, it can actually make one more bigotted, dear.

BOF > It's an odd one. In my first school I honestly wasn't aware of the other kids different colours etc. Whereas in my secondary school it was totally divided. I think it has to do with my first school drawing pupils only from the local area from a young age. So we all grew up in a very mixed area from babies. Then my secondary school drew pupils from surrounding areas that were more segregated, and so they carried that across.