To belive that my children are having a great childhood in London?

[mrsruffallo]

Annoying woman at parent and toddler grouip today.
She was noisily proclaiming her intention to leave London before her child turned 5 as it's an awful place to grow up!
I said if not here, where?
There is so much to do, lovely green spaces, much better than being stuck in the middle of nowhere
Turned into quite a lively discussion

[gobuddy]

I hate London schools, either full of low achieving rude kids, churchy hypocritical parents or smug fee paying competitive middle class 4WD types. I hate not being able to let my DB play outside without having to see him over the roads and then keep an eye out. I love being able to do or see almost anything within 30 minutes (aw heck - for instance ice skating, seeing an Egyptian mummy, go trampolining or playing laser tag). I love always being near a hospital. I love the friends in my street and their kids who just pop round. I love the choice of jobs and the salaries they offer.

So on balance London is a great place to grow up. It's rich and varied but can be unrelenting.

[Nigelella]

I grew up in a rural part of Wales but I've lived in London for many years since. And I always thought how great it would be to bring up any children I might have in Wales, not London. But now I'm not so sure. My partner and I had a little girl seven weeks ago, in London, and I'd come round to the idea some time ago that it's a fantastic place to bring up kids, if you can afford it (we can't, so have no choice but to move soon). There are different advantages and disadvanatges in the countryside and the city, that's all. If you look at yesterday's report about the health of under-fives, the bigger issues are much more to do with kids growing up in rich or poor areas, whether that's London or any city, compared to a deprived rural place. It's very sad to see inequalities getting worse and £10billion spent with such little impact on young children. See here [http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/joepublic/2010/feb/03/second-thoughts-children-health-inequality]

[cityangel]

I agree with those that say kids will be happy wherever with good parenting. I also completely understand why others wouldn't understand why I live in London and respect their choices.

I grew up in North London and am living in East London. Essex, Surrey and Kent are where most of my NCT chums have moved to in the last year all before our kids turn 2.
Some of them are quite lonely but I know in time they'll build new friends and a nice life for my ds' friends.

I have relatives who moved away 'to an area where we are all similar' Wiltshire and are bored with the locals. Other relatives live in a village further north where everyone knows your business and domestic violence is high.

Things I love:
Lots of places/activities to choose from
The River
Great playgrounds, parks and the zoo
Transport options
The familiarity of where I grew up and local family and friends
Cultural Diversity

Things I hate:
Good school options are expensive in the area I want to live
Property prices are ridiculous
Traffic fumes and people smoking outside every building
congestion charge/cost of parking
bored hoodies - often they can't afford to do anything that isn't illegal and there's nothing for them to do round here

[anabellapity]

reluctant to resurrect this thread but had a terrifying experience this afternoon. went to buy medicine for ds, encountered two deranged hoodies who were charging down a narrow pavement in opp direction to me - one had a mobile phone on speaker and was shouting (no screaming) down the phone "i'm going to murder you 1!!è§(, i'm just on my way" - to think that i almost took my ds out on this trip (as i usually would have done).

[dawntigga]

YANBU but I'd hate to live in a city now.

EachToTheirOwnTiggaxx

[rb1979]

i live in spain half the year now the kids are at an age where i have to make a decion weather to do schooling in span or the uk..... any ideas ...??/

[Lolis]

I do like living in London, but the main problem for us is that it's ceasing to be affordable. How are we ever going to afford bigger than a two bedroom flat for our growing brood? I would like my children to have a little more space as they get older, not to mention a modest garden. That's what makes London difficult for me, more than the schools/pollution/stress argument.

[fruitstick]

onebat you are quite right. That's certainly the reason we moved out. Of my original NCT group, only the lawyers are left.

One person on here, somewhere, said 'I live in zone 2 with a good sized house and a 100ft garden and good schools'. Well done you - I'd probably stay if that were an option.

I object most to the 'it's great if you have access to the countryside at the weekends' tribe. Oh yes, because actually rural britain is just one big theme park that you can all come and visit, without ever sending you children to the local school, using the post office or giving the pub weekday customers. And the people who do actually want to live there can't because the house prices are so ludicrous.

And the very notion that London is the only place with a sense of culture or vibrancy is slightly at odds with the 'everybody's so broadminded here' line of argument. The map goes out to zone for and then just wilderness and 'where thee dragons be'.

[onebatmother]

I think money worries are at the root of it all. Money and schools - and of course they are connected. My life would be astonishingly different with

no mortgage. One would never have the sense of being trapped or of having to overcome a huge hurdle to get a decent school.

[staranise]

Hear hear Habbibu

[scottishmummy]

with enough money.good housing.most places are good enough to raise a child (maybe not larkhall though)

[grenadine]

Myredcardigan - you have to admit that the climate is slightly more favourable in surrey compared to the North West. I spent my student days in the north west and my recollection is of rain and more rain!

[CloudDragon]

very true staranise!

[WilfSell]

What a mad thread.

Look, the high speed trainlines will be here soon. Do both. I;m really looking forward to it being only an hour to Manchester AND London. In fact, we could all swap for long weekends.

I love ALL of it. Britain is a fantastic place full stop. It has wonderful historic towns and villages, fantastic vibrant cities, beautiful countryside, wonderful beaches.

The most important thing for bringing up kids is not the view. It's the access to small local networks of like-minds, a bit of place to play and somewhere to visit every now and then to stop you going insane.

And by the way: the countryside is noisy too. I live there(-ish).

[anabellapity]

well, we live in Ham & High territory but only because i was brought up around there. we are def not big spenders (i make practically everything myself as far as i can get away with it - bread, jam, butter, clothes, furniture). however, we appreciate that a mean piece of original design should carry a price tag (even if it is not opne that we would pay) or that cashmere clothing is going to cost more than polyester. it is economics and nothing to do with being in London. I find that there are places outside London such as Winchester and Harrogate which are a lot more in line with some people's perceptions of London

I've also got scruffy homes, dh drives an oldish car and we have NO mortgage. Hurrah!

[Habbibu]

And here endeth the thread? Agree, blu.

[OrmRenewed]

"I am making sure it is a great place to bring up DS. I would do the same elsewhere. "

Well said blu. It is possible to give a child a good upbringing anywhere.

[staranise]

Clouddragon - Hebden Bridge is not exactly typical of anywhere else in the UK!

And yes, returning from abroad and living in London, the rest of the UK can seem parochial, particularly as the other parts I tend to visit often are particularly rural as that's where our family live and where we go on holiday. But that's the be expected for any capital city compared with the rest of the country. And it's not necessarily a bad thing as it usually also means that the other places have a stronger sense of identity (eg, Newcastle, Liverpool etc).

On a final note (really must get back to RL in actual London), I would agree with deliakate - the traffic is horrendous and a good reason alone to move out.

[deliakate]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I can personally state I would not like to bring up a child in London due to the traffic alone. London sans cars, yes, but its so polluted it makes me cough and gives me black bogies, so hate to think about my baby's lungs there.

[Blu]

er, the bit about the scruffy house was ONLY to counter the accusation that mc people in London are obsessed with bathrooms and kitchens!

eeee, but you do get less for yer brass in London.

[Blu]

Where we live doesn't define us, surelay all of us see things in the places we live that have nothing do do with us: my lifestyle sound very like BibbityBobs, my child goes to an inner-city school in a notorious borough, but he will never stab anyone or join a gang. My Mum lives in a rural coastal village in a part of the country which was v well represented in that leaked BNP list - but she is not a parochial narrow-mineded racist / homophobe and never has been.

We all also make compromises: my area of London is relatively cheap, has good schools, transport, access to good attractions but is absolutely not fashionable or charismatic! My brother lives in a lovely rural area with acces to the sea and great watersports, sailing, fishing etc, cheap houses, no overcrowding - and the schools are v mediocre.

The fantasy life I live is not necessarily in London, but it doesn't include any of the reasons that I HAVE to live in london, (or similiar) either - such as jobs, need to be close to a hospital with the expertise to deal with DS's leg operations, etc etc. So, all things considered, we are in London, and sionce it is where we are, I am making sure it is a great place to bring up DS. I would do the same elsewhere.

[Habbibu]

I have a scruffy house, a new car (but it's a Kia) and a medium-sized mortgage. So where do I live?

This is bonkers. I liked it better when it was all chimney sweeps and miners, and everyone, North and South, had flat caps in common. Such a social leveller, the flat cap.

[misssurrey]

Haha redcardi..yes, I'm quite confused myself now!

I disagree that Surrey people don't utilise London. BUT, they don't pop in for lunch really.

[misssurrey]

If we all liked the same thing, life would be Very Dull Indeed. Nothing wrong with feeling passionate about something though and absolutely, each to their own.

[myredcardigan]

That was to bibbitybobbity. Missurrey, I said, people in surrey didn't utilise London the way people here utilise Manchester and you said you disagreed. I was just clarifying and you've agreed.