marriage blah blah blah

[marantha]

Well, here we go again- same old arguments rage on about the marriage.

"Married people are better than the unmarried"

"Cohabitees should be treated as married after a certain time".

In their own way, both statements are wrong.

They fail to grasp what marriage is in the cold light of day.

"Marriage is a religious thing"- er, no, not necessarily.

"You're more committed if you're married" Well, maybe, but not all married people are committed and not all committed people are married.

"It's about bringing up of children"- well 50-year-olds marry.

The ONLY constant thing about marriage in the UK is a legal aspect. You marry and you are making a statement that you wish the outside world, tax authorities and the old guy over the road that you are a couple- because they are not psychic and will not know otherwise (hence cohabitee rights being unworkable).

It's time we grew up as a society and took marriage for what it is i.e. a legal thing and put the hearts and flowers bull and value judgements in the bin.

"The ONLY constant thing about marriage in the UK is a legal aspect."

Yep. Can't argue about that. But not sure that it matters. It's a legal basis on which to build the relationship that suits you.

But littlemoomin... I didn't realise you were married . I thought you were in a long-term, committed, cohabiting relationship!

committed my arse!

I still don't understand what the point of this thread is....

To take the piss out of people who are married I believe Porto. Because they are all so thick they don't realise their marriage certificate is a legal document.

Scotia that is not the point at all.

marantha,
Could you please (a)Tell us WHAT the point of the thread is-im losing the will to live! and(b) Why you think you are RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT,and we are all "wrong/ misguided".
You had this arguement on another thread, only a few days ago.
Are you married-if so, why did you get married? Is the first thing you saw in your partner legal "benefits"?
Getting married or not, is personal to the couple involved. THAT is all that matters.
When I was getting married, it was because it was important to ME-my dh and I had lived together first. I wasnt making a statement, didnt care who knew, and certainly didnt consider the taxman-perhaps I should have asked him to be the Best Man?!
I really dont get why this matters sooooo much to you-only that it must do, cos this is your 2nd such thread.
(goes to look-up what legal benefits I get from beong married and to make a banner declaring my status to neighbourhood...)

It's my THIRD thread.

marantha IS right.

lots of people genuinely do not think of the legal side of being married.

They see it as just being about love

And yet they still sign the LEGAL documents on their wedding day. We really are not all that stupid, however Marantha sees it.

I suppose giving birth is only a legal activity. After all it is compulsory to register the birth.

You are obsessed.

I don't get why people are so obsessed with insisting that every marriage is about either romanticness or their own personal imaginary friend. THe only thing legal marriages have to have in common is that they are, er, legally-binding contracts. All the superstition and sentimentality is important only to the participants and completely irrelevant to everyone else.

I started this thread because I am sick of both the Tory mantra that marriage is "good" and somehow a magic bullet for society's ills -as if getting a dysfunctional couple to marry will cure their problems!-AND because of the illogicality of proposed cohabitee rights that ape marriage when you can't have the rights of marriage without actually being married as marriage is a legal thing.

It is my crude attempt at encouraging discussion about what marriage actually MEANS and not what those involved in it subjectively view it as.
Yes, I obviously agree that for 99% of people marriage occurs for them when they are in love, but that is not the point of it.

Bigpants I am sorry but your argument that it only matters to the couple concerned is only half-right.

Marriage IS a public announcement that you make to the outside world that you wish to tie yourself to another adult.
Unlike cohabitation or living- apart -but- in- a- reltionship relationships, the legal system will then view you as a couple- so it is an arrangement that not only effects the couple's private life but their public life, too.

jasper is right: when a married couple part, sometimes only then does the true nature of what marriage is hits them.

Bigpants1 I am sorry but while I respect your own personal reasons for marrying you WERE very much making a statement by doing it- why else were witnesses and a signing of a document necessary?

The OP is completely right - marriage is nothing but a legal contract and has never been anything else!

I agree Bonsoir that's why I get pee-ed off when it's perceived as a panacea for society's ills.
How can the signing of a legal document make any difference to a couple's commitment and devotion levels -other than being of use in deciding what happens when their relationship breaks down?

Making all the people out there in so-called Broken Britain who are in brutal abusive co-habiting relationships married is not going to change anything.

Similarly, a committed co-habiting couple are not going to become MORE committed by getting married, either.

"It is my crude attempt at encouraging discussion about what marriage actually MEANS and not what those involved in it subjectively view it as."

Yes. That's the problem, it all gets too subjective, which is of course what politicians prey on. If the belief is that marriage is, in itself, something beyond a legal contract, something magical in its own right, then of course it can also be infused with the belief it can, for instance, "cure broken Britain".

This does not negate anyone's actual marriage!

Marriage in not just a legal contract imo...

in the eyes of the state it is...but then an adoption is just a piece of paper to the state also..but what about the eyes of the couple/parents?...

if marriage is just a piece of paper why are so many people afraid to get hitched?....its no big deal..just like signing any old document..

I think its a bit immature to think in such basic terms...but if thats your opinion so be it

Marriage wont solve the worlds ills I agree and it wont make a person more committed thats for sure...

If you dont like it dont get marriaged ..seems simple enough to me..dont get the whinging

CommonNortherner Absolutely right.
I know of too many married people who don't give a fig about one another and conversely too many cohabitees who are devoted to think that marriage in itself, as it is, i.e. a legal thing is a panacea for society's ills.

Perhaps if people selflessly devoted themselves to their children and others that MAY make a difference -but the mere act of signing a contract?

People are more committed once they are married because the legal contract they have signed together gives them more responsibilities towards one another than when they were unmarried.

Co-ercing people into marrying doesn't make them love one another more or make them better spouses or parents. However, if people better understood the legal responsibilities that marriage (and parenthood) entail, they might be more aware of how to be good spouses (and parents).

MN is highly informative about the general confusion among generally quite educated British women of the responsibilities of marriage and parenthood!

Mumcentreplus I don't see what is immature myself in attempting to cut away the optional fluff from a subject and see what essentially remains (a legally-binding contract) but there you go.

I think you are mistaken: JUST because I view marriage as a legal contract does not mean to say that it is "just a piece of paper" at all.

Actually getting married is a very serious undertaking that usually has far-reaching implications to the rest of a person's life.

And to be cynical, getting out of the contract is very, very difficult for some.

IMO people who think of marriage as a mere legality are missing the essence of it. This essence can be thought of as an emotional legacy, passed on from our parents or not. In the absence of parents passing it on, I don't see what is wrong with the State attempting to.

Bonsoir Does the act of marrying ACTUALLY make a couple more committed, though?

I suppose it could put a kind of sombriety into people as in, "Right, now I've gone public with this the rest of the world (including the law) now thinks that as I've declared that I'm committed to this person, I'll look a bit silly if I break this contract and because, I may lose half my house if I can't convince them there's a good reason to break it."

Yes, I can see how that may be an incentive to make things work- no cynicism intended (well only a bit).

the 'optional fluff' as you put it is the main reason people many choose to get married in the first place..or not which ever the case may be ...

to imply that its just a 'legal contract' and thats how its seen by married people is a mistake imo you see it as just that...the state sees it as just that but many marry for the 'optional fluff'...but on the face of it by law I agree its a contract..although to me and others it's more than that...