marriage blah blah blah

[marantha]

Well, here we go again- same old arguments rage on about the marriage.

"Married people are better than the unmarried"

"Cohabitees should be treated as married after a certain time".

In their own way, both statements are wrong.

They fail to grasp what marriage is in the cold light of day.

"Marriage is a religious thing"- er, no, not necessarily.

"You're more committed if you're married" Well, maybe, but not all married people are committed and not all committed people are married.

"It's about bringing up of children"- well 50-year-olds marry.

The ONLY constant thing about marriage in the UK is a legal aspect. You marry and you are making a statement that you wish the outside world, tax authorities and the old guy over the road that you are a couple- because they are not psychic and will not know otherwise (hence cohabitee rights being unworkable).

It's time we grew up as a society and took marriage for what it is i.e. a legal thing and put the hearts and flowers bull and value judgements in the bin.

The point ILoveTIFFANY (in as much as there is any point to an internet website thread), is that marriage is a hot topic at the moment- so I thought I'd start a topical thread.

As a society, it strikes me that we are very, very confused about what marriage actually is-smug people saying that marriage is better than cohabitation, marriage being about the "big day" and spending thousands and thousands of pounds,talk of cohabiting rights, so confused that it's REAL purpose has now become unclear.

And, IMO, when everything that is superfluous is stripped away (religion, committment, love) you are left with something that is a legal contract.

People can argue for/against here if they wish- it's only a bit of debate and exchange of views.

I really did marry for immigration purposes, I wouldn't have been allowed to live in the US without being married to my American husband. Completely a legal thing for us.

I'm a Christian now, but I still see marriage as a legal contract between two people, just like you'd go into business with people.

'you do it or you don't'

Erm, obviously.

'it is a legal thing'

So what?

Not that I am not saying marriage cannot be anything but a legal thing, but when it's being discussed, especially by politicians who concern themselves with lawmaking, then I don't think it's helpful to hold it up as some kind of salvation of society.

As a Christian my marriage does mean something different to me than it does to someone who marries for romance, and also different to other kinds of Christians. But that is irrelevant.

If I am not clear and it seems I've said two things I will clarify. The wedding with witnesses, signing documents etc. is the legal part of it. What my husband and I do/have done with it after that part and what we believe our "marriage" to be as a joint entity and together with our religion, is something different to the legal aspect.

Oy you! - stop nicking my thread!

My close friend met a nice single Dad and they fell in love.

His first wife had had issues with serious drugs and disappeared on him and their baby son. After a couple of years of being a single Dad, he met my friend, and tried to divorce his ex2b in earnest. However, as wife 1 had disappeared without trace, and although it is possible to divorce someone who isn't contactable, it was an awfully slow process...

In the meantine, my friend and he set up home, and had a baby....

What a nightmare it was... they couldn't buy a house together, as it was possible that his ex-wife would have a claim on it... my friend couldn't marry him (obviously) - and she couldn't register their DD's birth without her DP...

So yes, it's a legal contract, with lots of legal obligations and constraints...

However, I think it is an emotional contract too - largey because from what I saw it made my friend feel crap. Despite raising the Ex's dd and being like her proper mum, despite being teh one with the every day relationship with DP... she still felt like she was living with someone else's husband..

Which of course she was... so more than a bit of meangingless paper!

marantha - you are missing the point. saying it over and over again will not make it a universal truth. Factually marriage 'the union of a man and woman' it does not require a legal contract - the state does. If marriage and commitment are superflous in a marriage to you perhaps that is why you are so far off of the mark. From the minute we are born until we die there are legal documents - a birth certificate - change your name without going through a legal process and try to get a passport or bank account see what happens. National insurance number : lose it and you have to notify the police and get a new one. Driving licence - not a legal driver unless you have one. death certificate - you cannot access someones estate without it. So your point is......[hmmm]

on on the issue of people banging on about how much better it is to be married. Apparently sadam hussein had weapons of mass destruction.... [hhmm]

must get my s sorted out

You can combine an Islamic marriage with a legal contract I think if you wish, or you can choose not to. I know of a few people who were unable to get married legally so had a religious marriage only, (although they wished to eventually make it a legal contract also). Does this mean they are not husband and wife? When they tell me they are married, should I demand to seeing a wedding certificate?I think its each to their own perspective. I'm sure they and their families would see their wedding day, as the day they were religiously married, not the perhaps years later when it was made into a legal contract according to UK law.

Marriage is just a legal thing in the eyes of the law. Automatically sorts out a lot of legal problems in the event of illness, unexpected death, etc. and sorts out your tax status with regard to inheritance tax, etc.

As for what it means emotionally, well, it is what you make of it - but almost everyone thinks of it as more than just a piece of paper. At the very least, it is a public statement of commitment.

The fact that every society around the world has invented the concept of weddings and marriage in one way or another over the course of history (completely independently of other civilisations in many cases) is telling.

'marriage' predates the requirement of a legal contract by the state / church. The fact that you choose to dwell on the later legal requirement is slightly narrow minded.

I'm not sure what the purpose of the OP was. Is it that marriage is unreasonable?

We got married because we wanted to be a family - legally, emotionally, practically.

In Belgium you can apparently "register" a relationship with the town hall - basically a statement that you live together as a unit, as opposed to being flatmates. This does give you extra rights. Isn't this what they are proposing to do in the UK?

Portofino - no my point is not that marriage is unreasonable, but in ITSELF it is just a legal thing (what people make of it is up to them).

If people in the UK could "register" their relationship, I -for one- would have no issue with that.

I think the problem would be that these proposed cohabitee rights would somehow be imposed whether the couple liked it or not- after all, some people wish to live together without any outside interference from the state. Fair enough I say.

I still don't get it.

Saying that marriage is a legal thing, well, isn't it like saying that the sky is blue?

NonVinaigretteRien it may be obvious to YOU that marriage is a legal thing, however, that's not what everybody thinks.

People mix it up with religion, and have false ideas that those who marry are "More committed" than similar people in long-term cohabitations (which of course they may not be), it gets tied up with having big, fancy weddings.

I guess what I'm trying to do is say is that all these issues- religion, fancy weddings, marriage commitment vs cohabitation commitment are red herrings.

Marriage is a legal thing and what people make of it is up to them- so the jibes that the married and the unmarried cohabitees are flinging about on another thread are, in a way, silly.

Hmm. So, it can mean different things to different people, eh?

Wow.

You know, today the sky was grey. Sometimes it's pink. I've even seen it orange. So, is the sky blue?

You see, i have this theory - that i am a supreme being and you lot are just a figment of my imagination! Who's to say I'm wrong?

Of course, it can mean different things to different people- people can have their own "subjective" take on a number of things.

However, OBJECTIVELY, marriage is a legal thing.

This may be something you roll your eyes over, NonVinaigretteRien, but believe me, over on the other marriage thread, some people do not get this at all.

Ah, it's a thread about a thread.

That could be why it's making no sense.

If you want to discuss what some specific people are saying, don't you need to do it with them. Where they are.

Well, sometimes, one thread can inspire another thread. I don't see anything wrong with that- if people respond to THIS thread, it's up to them.

I am saying that when all the superfluous stuff is stripped away from marriage, marriage is in essence a legal thing.

If you disagree, fine. But why the above statement makes no sense to you, i don't understand.

marantha - your thread is now in direct competition with mine, am contacting the watchdog!

littlemoomin If you go over to YOUR thread, do it now! It may be too late otherwise!

Alas it IS too late!!!!! They took everything, even my server!!! It had all my wedding photos on!

Leave now while you still have a chance to keep your thread alive, I will try to hold Lucy off!!!