to take my chicken poxed child out?

[Chickenpoxmama]

Dh thinks I was so I want to know what you think.

My toddler has Chicken pox - spots appeared Tuesday. Dh did two days working at home and now I've taken leave. The days dh did at home I was able to take older child to school but dh couldn't do that today because of getting in to work. So I put toddler in pushchair and took her, keeping well away from everybody. (dh fine with that bit) then we proceeded to a nearby supermarket to buy a few bits - newspaper for me, chocolate buttons for toddler, stuff to make older child's birthday cake, fruit, fresh bread. The supermarket was nearly empty, toddler in pushchair at all times, I kept at least 2 feet and mostly 3 feet away from people. I didn't go to the deli counter because there was an elderly couple there just in case and I asked the checkout lady if she'd had CP before handing her the magazine toddler held all the way round. She had. Toddler is not coughing or sneezing and obviously I didn't let her touch anything or anybody except her magazine (which she is so thrilled with ) So aibu?

Just a further point - OP you asked above if people knew who they contracted chickenpox from... Well I know I contracted it from my DD, but I have no idea who she contracted it from as her toddler groups ended in very early December and none of her friends have contracted it. So yes, in answer to your question, we believe she was infected by someone merely passing by.

Hope this makes you realise your actions were incredibly irresponsible, no matter how 'careful' you thought you were being. And again, I do apologise for being so blunt, but after suffering a miscarriage caused by chickenpox, I think I have every right to be.

Op, a simple apology for you actions and earlier comments wouldn't go amiss here???
You may not have thought yourself unreasonable earlier, but now you can see the damage that can be done. I spent over 4 weeks in the house with DS2 &DD2, yes cabin fever hits, but it's essential to stay confined.

YADBU. I am not 'immunosuppressed' BUT I have no natural immunity to CP. I have had it a grand total of 4 times. Twice as a child, once when DD & DS1 caught it when they were VERY young, once when DS2 was at pre-school (incidentally DS1 caught it again then, but not DD). I have been told that as DS1 has no natural immunity to CP, like me, the vaccination would be of no use whatsoever, as it isn't with me. And I caught it once when I was 5 months pg with DS3...who was sb at 5.5 months. Because some selfish bitch unreasonable mother felt it necessary to get on a packed bus with two children who had very obvious CP that wasn't crusted over. I got off at the next bus stop due to the risk to myself, but the damage had been done in 3 minutes. Chew on that one while you consider if YWBU... .

Loudlass, so sorry to hear about your loss, what an awful thing to have happened because of someone else.

I'd be interested to see what chickenpoxmama has to say now, no replies from her since friday, but there has been enough evidence to really say she was unreasonable and negligent. I do hope she doesn't take her Dc out again till they are completely better.

I can't believe someone can claim they're being careful while also saying they gave their chicken poxy toddler a comic to hold all the way round and then gave it to the checkout operator! (Who might well have had CP but so what? She's not going to get to go and wash her hands, pen etc. after she's served you before serving the next person, is she?)

If you had tried to get CP into that supermarket so as to pass it on to as many people as possible you probably couldn't have done it better than by contaminating the hands of one of the checkout operators.

I really don't enjoy debate ... so will refrain from long post I could do.
but I'm in the YANBU camp, CPmama.
Just don't want you to fell totally alone!
I hope you don't have another child about to catch CP -- 10 days of quarantine in an 18 day period sucks Mega.

And if anyone thinks me and OP are BU then you must start campaigning long and hard for a routine vaccination programme. Any other position is completely hypocritical.

Haven't read the full thread but could someone tell me what the dangers are of encountering CP when pg please?

I have had CP myself, but am 15 weeks pg and went to a toddler group on Tuesday where there was a child with spots. I didn't get close enough to check whether they'd crusted over - hoped the parents were savvy enough not to have brought him out if not - but am now beginning to panic

Betty - PLEASE go and see your GP and/or midwife.

lljkk - The vaccination DOES NOT WORK for everyone, if you are like me and my DS1, and you have no natural immunity to CP, then the vaccination WILL DO NOTHING.

I can't understand how ANYONE could be selfish enough to put their own wants above other people's safety. There is always someone to ask to go to the shops for you, or you do what I did when me and my DC's were quarantined for 23 days with swine flu (came down one after another like dominoes), which is to shop online and ask the delivery person to leave the goods outside the door. I will re-iterate...My DC4 was sb due to someone thinking it was fine to take 2 toddlers on a packed bus when they had active CP. How, in anyone's eyes, is that ok to inflict on someone because you want a couple of pints of milk???

I had all my three get chickenpox in a row in Oct/Nov. I did take them out to the middle of the playing field next to our house to run around but warned anyone coming within about 30ft that they had CP. I didn't take them to swings / shops until fully crusted.

I just got DH to get the odd bits of food on his way home from work and also got tesco delivery (checking with delivery man that he was ok to be near kids as soon as I answered door!).

I just googled and found this:

So how big are the risks to your unborn baby if you are not immune and end up contracting chickenpox? Well, in the first 20 weeks of pregnancy there is a two in 100 chance of the baby developing fetal varicella syndrome. This can cause significant birth defects including deformed limbs, brain damage and problems with the eyes and skin of the baby. Not a nice thought, but it is only a small risk, and if you think there is any chance you have not had chickenpox - get tested!
The good news is that between 20 and 36 weeks of pregnancy, no damage can be done to the baby from the mother having chicknpox. Unfortunately the last four weeks are vital though, as the baby can pick up the infection again and the effects can be significant and even life threatening.

Then of course there is the risk to those with suppressed immune systems. apparently, pneumonia and meningitis can occur.

Yes the risks are small, but if you are the one in !000 that is affected do you really think that knowing you were one of the 'unlucky' 5% or so will help?

Of course you shouldn't have taken your child to a place where there were potentially a number of people who culd be at risk. If you felt sorry for her being indoors for a few days you should have taken her to a park or similar where there is less chance of coming into contact with others.

lljkk I will counter your vaccination argument and do think that anyone who takes their child out with chickenpox is VERY irresponsible.

I got exposed to chickenpox and had my immunity tested (as I was nearly 10wks pregnant), the test showed I had a positive immunoglobulin reaction to varicella zoster, which basically meant I was immune. Unfortunately I contracted chickenpox at just over 11wks pregnant and subsequently suffered a miscarriage, which is a risk of contracting chickenpox. A vaccination would not work on me as, although I show immunity, I will still contract chickenpox if exposed. There are other people who will not have immunity too, not to mention those who are immuno-supressed. Therefore a vaccination is not a 'cure all' solution, there will still be people who contract the virus with tragic outcomes.

If anyone wishes to argue against me, or the other ladies who have suffered losses as a result of them or their children contracting chickenpox, then I ask you to put yourself in our shoes and then see what your reaction would be?

To want to take your child our with such a infectious virus is selfish, irresponsible and thoughtless.

Betty please get your immunity tested, but be aware that even if you show positive immunity you may still contract chickenpox. If you do show immunity, they will not treat you (as in my case, yet I unfortunately contracted chickenpox and I miscarried), but if you do not show immunity, they can begin immunoglobulin treatment, which won't stop you contracting chickenpox, but will reduce the severity.

Good luck, I know what you must be going through.

Bunnyjo-it doesn't actually mean that it NEVER happens to anyone between 20-36 weeks, just that it even more unusual. I was exposed to CP when I was 20weeks and 4 days, and lost my DS3 (DC4) when I was 22 weeks 2 days. It CAN happen. but I agree, and I feel for you having to go through this as well.

Loudlass - the vaccination 'does not work for everyone'. True - the SF jab doesn't guarantee immunity in all children but that didn't stop me getting my at-risk child vaccinated. The fact that we don't have kids in iron lungs or dying of small pox shows that vaccines work in the vast majority of cases, and repeated bleatings that they don't work for you are a pathetic argument against vaccination programmes. lljjkk is quite right - I say this as someone who is deeply concerned about the effects of CP on at-risk persons - if you are concerned rather than flaming people on MN campaign for greater awareness and a vaccination programme. It will work for most people. If you are flaming the OP because that's a lot easier than getting into 'sensitive' areas such as lobbying, vaccinations and the like, then at least acknowledge that you are taking the lazy route.

Thanks, I am waiting for my midwife to call me back. Keeping my fingers crossed.

If I do get it, I'm not sure I'll be able to keep my mouth shut if I encounter that irresponsible parent again.

Che's post said it all.

I have had two children with CP and it was a pain especially as it was over Christmas. dd had it very mild but still missed nursery xmas party and church nativity play.

I was going to keep ds (who hadn't got it yet) away from said nativity but the church told me to take him (they checked that everyone else was happy with this first.)

He came out with spots Xas day so we stayed away from everything.

Not worth the risk to people who you don;t know may be compromised.

FFS, just had a call from DS's nursery about something else, but they also warned me that two children have come down with CP there.

Seriously, what are you supposed to do if you're pg and have a toddler? There's no way I can keep him away from all possible sources of CP unless we become hermits! This must happen all the time...

Bettybutterknife - you aren't going to keep them away from all sources of CP - I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that you do ? What you DO do (bloody hell sounds like a song) is follow the official DOH/NHS advice about keeping openly and visibly infected children away from other people for 5 to 7 days until their spots have crusted over. It's a simple measure and one that the majority of parents in the UK don't seem to have a huge issue with

bellissima - you're right, vaccinations not working for everyone isn't a strong argument against vaccination. What it is a very strong argument against people being careless about spreading any illnesses, even those for which there are vaccination programmes.

Something 'not being worth a vaccination campaign' isn't really an excuse for not bothering to be careful with it, and letting our kids spread it if we can easily avoid it.

Betty, good luck with your immunity check.

Sorry, Sassy, I think in my panic I probably didn't explain myself very well.

I want advice on what I should do in my stage of pregnancy (15weeks) if DS's nursery is telling me they've had 2 cases of CP last week.

Thanks.

loudlass I think it was sayithowitis that was saying there is no chance of complications from 20-36weeks, not me. I understand there are risks, no matter what stage in pregnancy you are, also there is much publication on the risks of FVS (fetal varicella syndrome), but very little information on the risk of miscarriage or stillbirth associated with pregnant mums contracting chickenpox. My heart really goes out to you, in a way at least I suffered an earlier loss and I can only imagine how you felt suffering a sb.

My heart also goes out to Che, I cannot even begin to imagine the grief you have endured.

bellissima I do agree about opening debate on the potential of introducing varicella vaccination programmes. I am quite sure that the number of cases of FVS or mc/sb as a result of contracting chickenpox will reduce. What you have to concede is that even if we ever get a vaccination programme in place, there will still be mums like myself and loudlass and immunosupressed people like Che's child, for which the vaccination programme will not work. Therefore, the only way to ensure you do not knowingly pass on the virus is to confine your child until they are no longer infectious.

The OP question was 'AIBU to take my chickenpoxed child out' and I'm afraid, no matter how you look at it, the answer is yes - she was being very unreasonable.

Betty - don't apologise - I sounded like a narky moo Hope the midwife is able to reassure you.

BettyButterknife the current advice is that you get your immunity checked and, if necessary, begin immunoglobulin treatment within 10 days of being exposed to CP. My immunity test was done on Tues morning and the results came back Wed afternoon.

Ring your GP for an emergency appointment if necessary, the doctor or nurse can do the bloodtest. I went through my GP as my midwife was on holiday and it was slap-bang in the middle of the Xmas holiday period.

Good luck and please try not to worry.

Thank you Bunnyjo.

I've just spoken to my midwife, who is going to test the blood they took at my signing-in appointment for immunity. I have a routine appointment with her on Wednesday morning anyway, and she seems to think they will have the results by then. She then talked about giving me a 'vaccine' if necessary - I think she means the immunoglobulin treatment

I suppose it just terrifies me to read your story (and that of poor Che ) and for the NHS to be saying something different. So they could tell me I'm immune, I won't get the immunoglobin treatment, and the worst could still happen.

Well, at least there isn't anything I can do about it now. Will just have to stop worrying and wait and see, I suppose.

Toddler most infectious BEFORE spots come out.

When I had to go out with toddler with some almost dried out spots I kept her in her buggy with raincover on even inside, that way she couldn't breathe on anyone. I definately would not have taken raincover off.

Not ideal but sometimes eg taking to school you have to go out.

Incidentally when I had CP my dad (a GP) send me back to school as soon as the spots on my face/hands/arms were healed. He said the ones on my legs/feet didn't matter since they were covered and it had gone round school anyway.