to take my chicken poxed child out?

[Chickenpoxmama]

Dh thinks I was so I want to know what you think.

My toddler has Chicken pox - spots appeared Tuesday. Dh did two days working at home and now I've taken leave. The days dh did at home I was able to take older child to school but dh couldn't do that today because of getting in to work. So I put toddler in pushchair and took her, keeping well away from everybody. (dh fine with that bit) then we proceeded to a nearby supermarket to buy a few bits - newspaper for me, chocolate buttons for toddler, stuff to make older child's birthday cake, fruit, fresh bread. The supermarket was nearly empty, toddler in pushchair at all times, I kept at least 2 feet and mostly 3 feet away from people. I didn't go to the deli counter because there was an elderly couple there just in case and I asked the checkout lady if she'd had CP before handing her the magazine toddler held all the way round. She had. Toddler is not coughing or sneezing and obviously I didn't let her touch anything or anybody except her magazine (which she is so thrilled with ) So aibu?

I don't want a chicken pox vaccine here, natural immunity is far stronger.

I actively wanted my kids to catch it, and develop immunity, i didnt however spread it around.

I think you were fine to take older child to school, we have all had to do a child ill in buggy keeping away from others at some point

The supermarket was unreasonable.

lljkk - it's interesting you say that because that is what has struck me about this thread. (Apart fromn the handbags of dozens of outraged mothers) The arguement is that I have been selfish in taking my child out at all. That I should think of the immunosuppressed/pregnant/just plain unlucky. I say again, that I did consider that and modified my behaviour - just not to the degree that many think necessary.

However if you use that public safety arguement on a thread specifically about vaccinations you are usually told that is irrelevant. That it isn't actually encumbent upon us to vaccinate to protect others. That women desiring ttc should find out their immune status beforehand, that an immunosuppressed person is resonsible for their own safety etc and that no public safety arguement is strong enough to justify the risks of vaccination.

Now obviously the only risk I ran by not nipping in to Waitrose was a disappointed child who is expecting me to be using my time off to prepare an amazing birthday cake but still - why is public safety of such overwhelming concern to so many for CP but far more ambiguous an issue for vaccinations?

Neat diversion there OP

I don't think that's relevant but by all means having established that you were indeed unreasonable, I guess there is room for an entirely different discussion before the thousand posts mark.

r4e

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I think that was cat for YABU!

YABU. I'm amazed at the number of people I see out and about with their obviously chicken pox infected children. Only last night I got on the train to go home from work and almost reeled back in shock to see a whole family sitting in the carriage covered in chicken pox spots . Everyone knows how easily germs spread in enclosed spaces like buses and trains. I'm 8 months pregnant as well so don't appreciate others putting the health of my baby at risk.

Just stay at home!

englebart - have you had CP though? If not you need to see the GP today, if you have, you and your baby should be fine. I (as I have said) about a million times on this thread would not have entered a small closed space like that with toddler. But then again I don't have to - we don't know why that family was on the train.

There was no excuse for that family to be on the train. I cannot think of one reason why a whole family, infected with a very contagious disease, should put hundreds of other passengers at risk.

CPM, a very neat diversion indeed. If you can't see the differemce between selfishly indulging a child's wants whilst risking public health and welfare and the risks associated with putting chemicals in one's body in order to avoid risking public health problems you're not as smart as you're trying to make out.

Divert away. YAstillBU.

More than 90% of pregnant women do have immunity through wild CP - i assume that holds true in the population at large? So you could argue that a person choosing not to vaccinate is mounting a sustained insult to public health. Persons such as myself and woman on the train with spot brood are posing only a passing risk to a very small number - and some of those who haven't had it would be better off catching it from us now rather than later when pregnant or having chemo.

The problem with that arguement is of course I don't know the immuno status of everybody in Waitrose and on the way to school. I've taken a risk with their health and that is of course what most of you object to. My point in mentioning vaccination is though - that we all take risks with each others health and with our own, all the time in the decisions we make. It's interesting to me that choosing not to vaccinate is widely seen as ok, as reasonable. But what it actually means is people doing what I did today, everyday, all the time and in far more crowded places - risking their health and that of others. Feel free to apply 'selfish' and 'arrogant' to me - I undoubtedly justify that - but those anti-virtues are not exclusive to me.

Someone I know, healthy and mid-twenties, died a few years ago from CP.

It's not always a "mild illness". No one knew where he caught it from either. His DCs didn't have it

You just don't get it, do you?

Vaccination of alien substance into individual for benefit of wider public = a risk of ill health or death to the individual, possibly making their children orphans and so on.

Not taking a child with chicken pox out in public in your particular circumstances = no cake baked and child whining for magazine and chocolate.

CPM whether or not vaccinations should be done is another discussion, and not at all relevant to you making this decision KNOWING vaccinations are not done.

"...an immunosuppressed person is resonsible for their own safety..."

Well I suppose you are right, but when I was having chemotherapy for a year, I would have hoped to be able to go to the supermarket without having to worry about catching chickenpox. It would have been easy for you to stay at home.

I feel for you chicken pox mamma - Both mine had CP last year one after the other we were at home in total for about 3weeks!!!

It is hard, obviously they are infectious before the spots even come out and then you can unknowningly be in a playpark etc etc spreading germs to allsorts of pregnant mothers and small children and no-one is going to be so viciously jumping down your throat as they are now.

There are lots of threats to our health in life - just crossing the raod is one of them!

I agree you did modify your behaviour - calculated risks and all that but however you did knowingly take your infectious child out and I guess you have to ask yourself how does your conscience feel?

It feels fine actually (dons hard hat and flameproof clothes) - I think that's because I know exactly what happened and what the circumstances were. I actually feel more active concern about the people exposed before the spots came out. From eveything I've read toddler was much more infectious then, now at the tail end of the illness, all spots out, some crusted, the infection risk is dropping.

Glad your fine with it then.

Can't decide. My own two DCs finally got CP last year - had been hoping that they would get it for years, literally waving them in front of 'sufferers', and had decided to vaccinate them if they got to 12 without catching (there is an 'adult' vaccine you can get privately here) as it can be so much more serious after puberty. Once they finally caught it I kept them out of anyone's way - as much as possible. Am aware how dangerous it is for some people. Am also aware that most pregnant women already immune. And above all, given that you are contagious before any spots appear, i do feel that if the govt, medical authorities etc feel that it is so much of a danger to certain groups that one should not be in public etc - then they should offer the vaccination for children as in the US (not that I would for a moment say should be compulsory - I respect anyone's views on vaccinations). But seriously, if the official view is that a vaccination for a disease that is so common and so contagious is not necessary, then you can hardly ban or flame people from appearing in public with it.

If your fine with it, then yes you are unreasonable and selfish too.

Yes its the responsability of the government.

belissima - In this country, medication deemed unnecessary by the authorities often means "too expensive" or, as was said by Flightattendant, somewhat ineffective and/or not offering long-term immunity.

I think the school run was OK, as you stayed back from everyone. But the shopping trip was totally unnecessary and could have waited until tonight/tomorrow when your DH (or you) could have stayed home with poxy toddler.

DS has had the chickenpox vaccine, is given as part of the schedule in Oz. Seems to have worked - not had a problem even with the waves that have gone through nursery/school.

DH and I both got it as adults and it SUCKED we both have quite deep scars.

For heaven's sake, why didn't you do the shopping online? Or ask your dh to pick up the bits and pieces for the cake on his way home from work?

Of course you are fine with your decision - because you will probably never know if anyone else suffers because of it - but as others have said, it was selfish of you to put your desire for frankly pretty trivial stuff ahead of other people's safety.

I am aware that cost comes into a lot of things here - only in another country was I actually tested (ie when pg) to see if I was immune re CP, toxoplasIcan'tspellit, etc etc. However when the risks are deemed serious enough the authorities here do generally offer vaccinations - frankly they aren't that expensive particularly compared to the alternatives (both in human and financial costs). Thus one is tested for rubella immunity here when pg. As I say, given that my children were - to my embarrassment - already contagious when I was still merrily taking them to school, parties and even to hospital (one DD had apptmt), then the authorities presumably do not deem the danger to be that great. Believe me, if they offered the vaccination I would have taken it (ie for them) rather than put anyone in any danger whatsoever as I was well aware that they hadn't yet had CP and therefore at some stage were liable to be contagious and spreading it - I had already discussed the adult vaccine with the GP. As I say, when first spots arrived we were stuck at home - but I see no effort by the authorities to offer either vaccinations or even a 'stay at home' campaign - which must say something about official views on the matter. If you feel very strongly about this why not lobby for one of the two - you would certainly have my support.