to take my chicken poxed child out?

[Chickenpoxmama]

Dh thinks I was so I want to know what you think.

My toddler has Chicken pox - spots appeared Tuesday. Dh did two days working at home and now I've taken leave. The days dh did at home I was able to take older child to school but dh couldn't do that today because of getting in to work. So I put toddler in pushchair and took her, keeping well away from everybody. (dh fine with that bit) then we proceeded to a nearby supermarket to buy a few bits - newspaper for me, chocolate buttons for toddler, stuff to make older child's birthday cake, fruit, fresh bread. The supermarket was nearly empty, toddler in pushchair at all times, I kept at least 2 feet and mostly 3 feet away from people. I didn't go to the deli counter because there was an elderly couple there just in case and I asked the checkout lady if she'd had CP before handing her the magazine toddler held all the way round. She had. Toddler is not coughing or sneezing and obviously I didn't let her touch anything or anybody except her magazine (which she is so thrilled with ) So aibu?

On that note. Poke it.

And I think it's fair to assume that if a child with CP is well enough to go to the supermarket and eat chocolate buttons and you have time to make a birthday cake, then the CP dose probably wasn't that bad. Which is great for you and your toddler. And possibly explains your flippant attitude

bellissima i have no issues with your situation, you weren't to know, totally innocent.
The OP however was deliberately irresponsible and doesn't seem to be sorry for that at all. Her posts are smug, defensive and it seems deliberately provocative. She obviously doesn't think she is unreasonable even with all the facts in front of her.
I wouldn't like the Op's or any other child to go through what my DD2 has just been through, however I think the Op should experience a hefty dose of CP or Shingles!

My DD had CP 3 weeks before a holiday. I checked with GP and she said DS1 would show symptoms before that if he had it. Guess what we woke up to on the first morning of the holiday... Cue fun week of leper-like behaviour from one parent while the other had fun with DD. Poor little sod was miserable too, he had spots in his ear canals and throat and it was awful.

I am hoping DS2 gets it soon.

One thing about vaccines - this is of course anecdotal and thus valueless. Last pregnancy, one of the kids I teach had measles (proper, not German measles). I was vaccinated in 1978 against measles. Guess what - blood test showed that I am not immune. Luckily I didn't get it. (I did, however, catch 'flu from someone who just HAD to be at work. Pregnant, asthmatic + 'flu = very poorly me, I was in hospital for several days.)

I think adults who go out with nasty bugs are much worse than a confined child with very limited access to the outside world being taken out with CP. I think YWNBU. I appreciate this is a minority viewpoint. )

Come on Fa - people are not taking me seriously. I was very clear about the reasons why I don't think the drop in to the supermarket was a greater risk than already inherently found in a public place and very few have expressed a willingness to take that on board. This whole thread is full of people insisting they are right - so it's quite rich that apparently I don't have the same right to insist I am right? I'll hold my hand up to being flippant on occasion though.

Just for clarification purposes, I don't hope DS2 gets it soon because I dislike him or anything. Just that I'd rather he had it now, when he is buggyable and restrainable!

(You did see I said YWNBU, right? my post was a little bit stream of consciousness there.)

I feel sorry for your DH if you're always this bloody minded when proven wrong

I've just had 6 months chemotherapy and looked well throughout, but obviously had/have a seriously compromised immune system. I did reduce my risks by avoiding hugely crowded buses at rush hour etc but in my position it's hardly feasible to say indoors for 6 months is it ? So you and your child could easily have been near someone like me...giving me a life threatening infection which in turn would have given rise to a situation in which my chemo would have to have been postponed while I recovered from said infection.

was very clear about the reasons why I don't think the drop in to the supermarket was a greater risk than already inherently found in a public place and very few have expressed a willingness to take that on board.

Um, you went out in clear disrespect to known public health guidelines, clearly putting others at risk, it doesn't matter how careful you think you were.
Totally different to going out before the blisters came up, you chose to take out an infectious child. Big difference, there, I've addressed your supposed excuse!

To add further discussion re: vaccinations and shingles:

The chickenpox vaccine is controversial. I don't really know what to do about ds because I don't want to give him the vaccination but because the community in the US is 'mostly' vaxed, it means less chance of catching the disease while he is young and it is least harmful.

What is really interesting about chickenpox/shingles is that the evidence shows if you are frequently exposed to chickenpox throughout your life (children, grandchildren etc.) you actually boost your immunity to shingles- so it is actually quite good for most healthy people to be exposed to the disease.

In a natural situation, the vast majority of people would get chickenpox young, be immune to it through their adult lives and be re-exposed frequently through their children so they would avoid shingles later on.

But because we do quarantine our children, many miss getting it as children so catch it as adults (and worse, when they are pregnant) when things are more serious.

Given that there are also people with suppressed immunity around, those consequences can be even more grave.

Understandably then, we have a quarantine culture in the UK - you are expected to quarantine sick children.

But I suspect if no-one quarantined their children, there would be very, very few people who didn't have immunity before adulthood (given that nearly 90% do already have immunity by adulthood with the quarantine culture). You would also strongly cut rates of shingles.
This would be great for the population as a whole, but for that fraction of people who are immuno-suppressed and had never had chickenpox, things would be pretty bad. But if we didn't have a quarantine culture, that percentage of people would be tiny as almost all of them would have had the chickenpox as children.

So... given that there is an expectation of quarantining chickenpoxed children, YABU.

But I wonder if we ABU for quarantining children (and I think the US are definitely BU for trying to push the varicella vaccine on the population and thus messing with natural immunity).

---

From nhs.uk:

The vaccine against the varicella virus (which causes chickenpox) is not currently recommended for standard use in children.
In most cases it is a mild illness and around 89% of adults in the UK will develop immunity to the illness.
If the chickenpox vaccine were to be added to the list of childhood vaccinations, it is feared that there would be a greater number of cases of shingles in adults, until the vaccination was given to the entire population. This is because adults who have had chickenpox as a child are less likely to have shingles in later life if they have been exposed occasionally to the chickenpox virus (for example by their children). This is because the exposure acts as a booster vaccine.

Carmen that is really interesting. I hereby retract my wish for a vaccination program.

A poster mentions chemotherapy and you still prefer to be hilarious

This has to be a wind up or you really are a heartless bitch.

I am also aware that some research shows that a mass vaccination programme could increase the risk of adults who have already had CP getting shingles because they would not be as exposed so much to the virus if the children around them are vaccinated. Note however most researchers point out that this could well be a time-limited effect, ie not affecting the 'vaccinees', just those of us who have already had CP and therefore are at risk of shingles. But surely a more important point is that, whilst shingles is generally agreed to be 'orrible, and I certainly hope I don't get it (and nor anybody else on here - I find some of the 'I hope she catches such and such' a bit off) - for the vast majority of shingles sufferers it is still not half as bad as CP might be to an immuno-suppressed person. Thus if you really believe that it is a grave threat to an immuno-suppressed person then, given that people are contagious before they have symptoms (my DCs also got it from 'random strangers' - no friends or classmates had it - to their knowledge) - you should campaign either for childhood vaccinations or at least a 'stay at home' campaign - stay at home was certainly not the message I got from HVs etc when my children were very young. Blood tests show that I was wandering round with measles at some stage in my life - almost certainly my childhood - apparently most people born before the mid-70s were doing exactly the same at some stage, to the utter ignorance of their parents I should add. Thankfully that no longer happens as the death rate is rather higher for measles than CP. But, whilst I know it's controversial and sensitive, its only logical to campaign for vaccinations or stricter controls on movements of people with CP if you believe it is a serious threat. And more useful than flaming people on here.

Gibbon - several people have mentioned chemo and other conditions causing immuno suppression. My last post was quite plainly NOT in response to them.

The world is full of 'could have/might have/would have' situations. If I really had no regard at all for those situations then I would have had a lovely time with toddler out and about today. That isn't what I did. I conducted a quick trip to a near empty supermarket paying strict regard to avoiding any close contact with anybody. It's not a wind up so I'm afraid you will just have to think me a heartless bitch.

[biscuit}

All I can do is repeat what I usually reply to these threads and you can make your own mind up about BU.

DD had cancer
DD put up with months of horrible treatment
DD got chickenpox
DD suffered agonising neurological pain which the doctors put down to nerve damage. At one point it took them 3 days to control her pain and and during that time all I could do was hold her whilst she sobbed and screamed in pain.
DD had suffered nerve damage but she had also relapsed and this was masked by the symptoms of CP.
DD died a couple of months later.

When my younger ones get CP i wont be taking them anywhere.

Still angry typing!

OP, as far as I'm concerned YWNBU. It's not like you took her to a children's party.

I don't know what I'd do if any of mine had ever had CP (used to live in a country where it's part of the standard vaccination programme so they all got it) but I' genuinely confused by people's attitudes towards CP.

On one hand it's a "relatively safe childhood disease" that people actively try to get their children to catch so that they're immune to it later, but unfortunately it's not mild for everyone, is it? So if your child gets it and something goes wrong "it's X's fault for bringing her kid in contact with mine".

And yes, I fully understand the difference between trying to get it and being indifferent towards "offering" it. But when people say "I hope DC get it soon" how are they so certain it's going to be a mild case.

And I'm so sorry to hear about all these cases here about DC that have had CP which led to more serious problems.

chegirlsgotheartburn I can't imagine what you went through. My heart goes out to you and your family. I only hope Op will take note and listen to reason, realise how selfish and insensitive she's been.

First time I have used this but there really is nothing more I can say.

Exactly - che - CP can be very dangerous in some cases and nothing could be more awful than your DD's. But the fact remains that, although I wouldn't emulate her behaviour, cases of chickenpox caught via 'guilty parties' (her, not her DCs!) represent a tiny, tiny proportion of the total number of cases. You are contagious before you have symptoms. So, to prevent terrible tragedies then you should lobby for greater vaccination or public awareness and stricter controls. After all, shingles, whilst horrible is nothing for the vast majority of people, compared to your story. I would certainly put up with a greater risk of shingles to prevent that.

I wouldnt blame anyone who spread any illness without knowing they had it. But I do firmly believe that if you do know you have an infectious disease you have a responsibilty to take steps to contain it.

This was the norm years ago when routine illnesses were potentially fatal. I wonder if we are now complacent because we have antibiotics and access to health care that our grandparents didnt have?

They knew that measles and flu could kill and CP and scarlett fever could devastate a family. So self imposed quarantine was routine and expected.

I think most of us do not experience the death [by illness] of those we love so we think its ok to take risks.