To be furious that my friends gave alcohol to my 8 yr old!

[Solo2]

DS aged 8 has just told me he was given a small amount of wine when he and twin recently stayed with them for 2 days. He also told me that he and twin were driven in a car in the afternoon by the husband, who'd been drinking wine at lunch.[anger]

I am mega-furious! Am I over-reacting? My twins have never had alcohol and I don't drink at all (I'm a single mum) and they know that it's illegal/ wrong for children to drink. But it's not DS1 fault. It's the bloody friends!

These friends have had the twins to stay twice before. The second time, they gave DS1 tea to drink - for his first time- at breakfast and he threw up everywhere in their car and they then made him stay out all day at various activities, covered in vomit. When they brought him home, he stank and needed bathing and afterwards, I made it really, really clear that they must NEVER give tea/ coffee to my children. I personally don't believe in hot drinks for children and I assumed my friends would respect my wishes.

Now I've found out the twins were also given hot choc. - which is no big deal but along with the news about the alcohol, it's clear that the friends are not respecting my wishes and actually sneakily giving things to my children that they KNOW I never would.

BUT.....these are the only people in my life who've ever had the twins to stay and it's been my only 3 occasions off-duty at night, in almost 9 yrs. These friends BTW are a woman of 77 - who looks and acts as if she were 52 and her much younger husband of 56. I've known them for yrs and yrs and she's been like a second mum to me. We have no family alive/ or involved in our lives, so these friends are almost like 'family'.

I imagine they were thinking it was a good, new experience for DSs to have, by giving them a small amount of wine (one DS refused) and that 'no harm was done'. I also imagine they're of the school of thought that a glass of wine is fine before driving - but they know I don't drink at all and believe that especially if children are in the car, best not to drink AT ALL!

So what do you think? Am I just too over-protective and neurotic or have I the right to be angry? If I broach it with the friends, I KNOW they'll be hugely angry and reactive. Several yrs ago, I had a falling out with them and we cut contact completely for yrs. So I'm risking losing them....however, if I say nothing, I'll not be wanting my twins to stay there again and then they'll wonder why....

if you don't like it don't send them to stay.

at the hot chocolate

Is it illegal? I thought legally you were allowed to give children over 5 small sips of alcohol? I might be wrong though, but I'm sure SIL told me something similar.

YOur not BU as such, but aside from the drink driving (I agree with you fully on this one), maybe a tad over sensitive. A small sip of wine is not going to cause any irreversable damage.

I let dd1 have small sips of wine occassionally. She had a very weak glass of wine and lemonade at xmas (by very weak I mean a capfull of wine diluted in a tumbler full of lemonade). I believe that allowing her to taste it means it will be less of a forbidden fruit and therefore less appealing when she is older.

All of my friends/family with children allow small sips to their children. It seems to be quite common. Your friends probably didn't realise it would upset you so much.

I'd be pissed at them getting into a car after drinking with my children in back. You have every right to point out how terribly wrong that could have gone.

How small? A sip? 250ml?

On balance - YABU
If your friends are looking after your children, as a favour to you, you have to ease up on some of the rules. Not allowing hot drinks is fine at home, but not something you can enforce at others' houses. I wouldn't think twice about giving an 8yo hot chocolate.

Re the man having a glass of wine then driving - again, you are using your own standards that are not like others' and the law says you are safe to drive after a small glass of wine - so ease up.

I also don't see the biggie about letting them have a taste of wine. They won't like it anyway, and it's not actually illegal in their own home. However, I totally get you being pissed off about that one.

But...what do you do? Do not have a go at them, if you think they are doing all sorts that you wouldn't like then stop sending your kids - otherwise accept they will do some things differently and try to chill out. Nothing that they have done is crime of the century and you do sound a tiny bit neurotic by the by. (why not hot drinks for children?)

I think YABU, but if you really don't want the children to taste any alcohol then tell THEM to say no - but TBH dipping a finger in or a sip of wine is something that most people probably think is a normal part of involving children in a meal

I don't know why you would be upset by hot chocolate - that's what I always feed visiting children! Fills 'em up and keeps 'em warm.

Lots of people feel fine after a glass or two and are quite safe to drive - it depends on the person TBH.

I think you are really lucky to have these friends, they sound like they provide real respite and are perhaps substitute grandparents - and everyone knows that grandparents are for breaking the rules. ;)

I'm not sure how old your twins are but it sounds as though thesae friends have provided you with the occasional much needed night off.

I fully agree that they should not be driving your children after drinking, however, one glass of wine (if it's small) is not going nto take the driver over the drink drive limit. Although personally I never drink alcohol if I will be driving.

Many older people do let children have a sip of what they are drinking (I remember my grandparents letting me taste wine and it put me off for a long time).

You don't believe in hot drinks for children but hot chocolate is not hideous - my son drinks it occasionally and it won't kill a child so think you are being a bit oversensitive on that one.

By all means address it with them but be prepared for the loss of people who give you the occasional much needed night off and ask yourself if it's worth it. If the driver drank 2-3 glasses of wine before putting your children in the car then yes it probably is but if he had one small glass of wine then think about it before makiing a decision.

Why did you let them stay again if you weren't happy about it the first time??

yabu not to let your children have hot chocolate!

as a parent its completely normal to worry if someone does something that you wouldnt with your child

but its not illegal to sip wine at 8 children under 5 it is although most of our little monkeys at some point have sipped from someone's glass sneakily

one glass of wine at lunch is legal to drive as not over limit at all

but i do see why you would worry but fact is everything went well and all was well so maybe you could just say not to give wine any more as you were planning on this in few years

but on a whole they were well looked after and obviously came away having a fab time so brush this one under the carpet

sorry also the no hot drinks for children made me chuckle the best thing to help child sleep would be warm milk or hot choc

i am sad to say yanbu to dislike but yabu and slightly over protective with some things

I think you are being ott

and if oyu do mention it then your free childcare will be gone

8 yr olds are quite capable of being told what they can and can't have. Why don't you talk to your dts about what your preferences are and explain why (personally I'd find the hot chocolate lecture a bit tricky ). I would also speak to your friends about what you don't want your children to have. You could phrase it in such a way to say that 'X&Y aren't used to having whisky/hot chocolate/creme de menthe etc at home and you'd prefer it if they didn't have it when staying with you'.

Ds's first sip of alcohol was at his christening! Hasn't had any since though .

Wine unacceptable and I wouldn't even give it to somebody else's teen, even though my own 9yo has had a sip out of my glass; that sort of thing is for the parents to decide, as alcohol clearly can be harmful and there are different views of the right and best way to introduce it to young people.

But hot chocolate sounds weird.

Is there a medical reason why an 8yo would throw up after having tea? I have never heard of this happening (my own 8yos were perfectly capable of making themselves a cuppa- and bringing me one in bed). Or could the throwing up be for totally unrelated reasons?

If you really know there is some special medical problem with your dcs that means hot drinks make them ill, then you need to explain that to your friends

Most people are very happy to cater for genuine medical or religious needs- allergies, teetotalism, religious taboos etc.

But it is too much to ask them to respect something that sounds like a mere whim when the child is old enough to be gaining some independence of their parents.

Thanks for the feedback so far and just to get clear, I wouldn't mind hot choc. per se . It was only because last time they stayed, DS was given tea for breakfast - which he'd never had before and which I'd not give to children - and threw up and then was made to go round all day with vomit-soaked clothes on.

As he has a general tendency to throw up frequently, I try to avoid things that induce it, especially if friends made him go round covered in vomit (including to a soft-play place), where other children told him he stank etc. At home, I'd have washed and changed him straightaway. So I specifically told friends to avoid all hot drinks of any kind - just as a precaution - and they didn't. I'm not bothered about DCs generally drinking hot choc. if they don't throw up. It was the betrayal by friends of specific instructions.

The alcohol thing is tricky. Recently in the news it said DON'T give children under 15 any alcohol at all and there's little evidence to show it really does stop teenage drinking and beyond. If I were going to let the DCs try alcohol, I'd want it to be at home, up-front and not sneakily - with me present. DS1 says it was about quarter of a glass of white wine.

The husband had drunk at least one glass of wine before driving - but not sure how much.

Yes, I AM torn between the view that children need to experience lots of different ways of life other than their family's - and the view that family 'culture' should be respected.

I've had children round where the parent has said no chocolate or no crisps and I'll respect their views, for example, even if I allow my own children 'junk food' when those friends of theirs are not here. If mum said to me, "Don't take my child out in the car", I might think - what a neurotic worrier! - but I would agree to respect their wishes.

That's what's at the heart of this really, more than the content of what they did per se. It's the overall sense that my wishes - however neurotic - were not considered...but then is it worth losing a friendship over?

YANBU about the wine. Parents' wishes should be respected on this one and I think it is unacceptable to drive someone else's child around when you have had anything to drink. I would not make those kinds of decisions for someone else's children.

I think YABU about the hot chocolate - not letting your children have it is kind of OTT.

The thing is though that you already knew that your friends don't follow your line when dealing with your children. I think either you have to accept that this is the case and decide to trust their judgment (which might be the best thing since they do at least help you out) or you have to stop letting them look after your children.

sorry - X-posted before you explained re the hot chocolate! Makes more sense now.

This is not really a dilemma to me. You feel they are not really capable of caring adequately for your DCs because they are undermining your parenting style. Just don't ask them for anymore overnight stays. They clearly don't do it often so they probably won't notice you stopping it for a while.

I think the real dilemma is that you are worried you will lose your only overnight sitter. It is fine to worry about this but I think if someone was driving my DCs around after drinking I would not feel they were capable of making decisions about their care generally and this would outweigh my desire for an occasional overnight sitter.

Well, in your case, I would explain exactly what you said to us, that your ds has this tendency to vomit and that hot drinks trigger it. That makes perfect sense. And of course prime your ds so he says the same thing.

It was the bit about not believing in hot drinks for children that sounded dodgy: I wouldn't mention that bit.

As for respecting family culture- I'm not so sure about that. Your dcs are growing up; in a few years family culture won't just be what you (and your dh if you have one) feel is right, but what the whole family feels and a feeling of consensus. This does not mean you should cave in and let dcs and their friends walk all over you; just that in the long run dcs will only respect family culture if they feel they have a hand in it. Family dynamics change very rapidly in these years. Very soon your own dcs will challenge your ideas, not just because they want to be naughty, but because they are starting to work out how they will be as adults. (have a 9yo and a 13yo so very much at this stage myself). Prickliness about respecting your views won't help here, as much as a willingness to discuss and give and take and choose the really important battles. And being prepared to explain why a certain issue is important without making it about your feelings (won't go down well with a 13yo). I'd start practising with these friends of yours.

Cutting contact with anyone who is undermining your parenting style may be fine when you have toddlers. It's not going to work when they're at secondary. So you might as well start thinking about how you argue for your parenting style in the face of completely opposing views.

Definitely not worth losing friends (or free childcare) over. I'd actually be more upset about the vomit than the alcohol or the hot drinks but they are from a different generation and they won't necessarily see the same things as issues that you will.

Let it slide. Grandparents and childless uncles/aunties always let your kids do stuff you wouldn't. It's why they like them.

YANBU at the alcohol giving and driving after the dh had a drink but are totally U about giving kids hot drinks , i used to love a lovely hot tea as a child from time to time and used to make my grandma one when she came to stay. My dd 2.10 loves a tea from time to time nothing wrong with that imo, i would rather her drink that than fizzies and psychadelic coloured rubbish you get.

Seems to me that you have 2 choices.
Have it out with your friends ..... or not.

You know that by having it out with them will result -and quite rightly in my opinion -in them refusing to have your twins overnight (if any contact at all).Enjoy having your twins 24/7

Or keep it to yourself. Train the twins on what they are allowed to have and don't cross question them when they arrive home. Enjoy the free time.

If they were 8 months old my answer would have been different though.

Your poor kids, might be a rod for your own back later when they cannot get enough of the hot stuff

Imo i would give them small sips at lunch occasionally watered down wine, i had that when i was young, and we come from a Mediterranean family so it is the norm there as it is across the Continent nothing shocking, and they dont have nearly as bad alcohol problem as we do, i think that it develops a healthy attitude to drink.

Just to clarify re. DS1 vomiting after hot drinks - I've posted on his tendency to vomit this morning on the Children's Health forum. Friends already know he often vomits and that we're trying to find out why and to avoid anything at all that might provoke it. So, OK, it now seems hot choc DOESN'T cause a vomiting episode but hot tea does.

Thats' fine. I can happily give DCs hot choc. if I want to and if either DC vomits, I can immediately clean him up. I don't think it's OK that DS1 was left to go around covered in vomit at the last stay and I was trying to find a way to avoid the whole issue by saying no hot drinks at all.

BTW, DS2 (who has v v mild Asperger's and not good at personal hygiene/ self-care skills - see a post from me on Special Needs recently) - came home stinking of poo this time. Friends hadn't let twins shower/ bath or suggested that they should but DID say, "You'll need to give them a good bath when you get them home". The friends had obviously realised DS2 needed a wash but saw it as my job and that 2 days and nights away was fine to go without washing. But DS2 was v embarassed and had 'nappy rash' badly for days.

Again, maybe it's too much to assume that DCs will receive the kind of care that a parent or relative might give them if they're staying there - OR - would it be reasonable to expect that as friends know about DS2's Asps., they'd comply with my request that the children bath or shower whilst they're there - or am I just a fussy mum and should let go more and let DCs have mildy aversive experiences outside of home, to help them realise that they'll have to cope with life independently oneday?

Sorry just read some more of the posts if DS is allergic or doesnet agree than fair enough, if her were not and was fine with tea than you would BU