To be furious that my friends gave alcohol to my 8 yr old!

[Solo2]

DS aged 8 has just told me he was given a small amount of wine when he and twin recently stayed with them for 2 days. He also told me that he and twin were driven in a car in the afternoon by the husband, who'd been drinking wine at lunch.[anger]

I am mega-furious! Am I over-reacting? My twins have never had alcohol and I don't drink at all (I'm a single mum) and they know that it's illegal/ wrong for children to drink. But it's not DS1 fault. It's the bloody friends!

These friends have had the twins to stay twice before. The second time, they gave DS1 tea to drink - for his first time- at breakfast and he threw up everywhere in their car and they then made him stay out all day at various activities, covered in vomit. When they brought him home, he stank and needed bathing and afterwards, I made it really, really clear that they must NEVER give tea/ coffee to my children. I personally don't believe in hot drinks for children and I assumed my friends would respect my wishes.

Now I've found out the twins were also given hot choc. - which is no big deal but along with the news about the alcohol, it's clear that the friends are not respecting my wishes and actually sneakily giving things to my children that they KNOW I never would.

BUT.....these are the only people in my life who've ever had the twins to stay and it's been my only 3 occasions off-duty at night, in almost 9 yrs. These friends BTW are a woman of 77 - who looks and acts as if she were 52 and her much younger husband of 56. I've known them for yrs and yrs and she's been like a second mum to me. We have no family alive/ or involved in our lives, so these friends are almost like 'family'.

I imagine they were thinking it was a good, new experience for DSs to have, by giving them a small amount of wine (one DS refused) and that 'no harm was done'. I also imagine they're of the school of thought that a glass of wine is fine before driving - but they know I don't drink at all and believe that especially if children are in the car, best not to drink AT ALL!

So what do you think? Am I just too over-protective and neurotic or have I the right to be angry? If I broach it with the friends, I KNOW they'll be hugely angry and reactive. Several yrs ago, I had a falling out with them and we cut contact completely for yrs. So I'm risking losing them....however, if I say nothing, I'll not be wanting my twins to stay there again and then they'll wonder why....

Everyone here will have an opinion on what drinks are acceptable/unacceptable to give kids ... but that's beside the point. These are your kids. Your decision. I think the issue at stake here is how you make your own opinions clear - and it doesn't necessarily mean you'd have to lose your babysitters or your friendship with them.

YANBU.

I wouldn´t bother sending them any more tbh.

If someone fell out with me & cut contact for years I wouldn´t consider them friends.

Do you only want to stay friends so you can have nights "off duty"?

Your friends are really kind but they should if they take your dcs do personal care and wash them if needs be really. It is not nice for anyone to go round stinking of poo or sick really. Why dont you mention it to them, if not dont let them have the twins.

cory - I didn't say cutting contact and that wasn't what I meant. Totally agree with the family dynamic things you said about teenagers.

If you choose to ask someone to provide overnight care for children unable to care for themselves you have to ensure they are someone you feel equipped to care for the children, someone who will be able to cope and either someone who understands your parenting style or whose parenting style you understand and agree with. Not asking them to babysit overnight is not the same as cutting contact, not at all. It's just not asking them to provide care and it may do the friendship good.

IMO these things are not the case if it is a family member having contact such as a GP or XH/P because the children should expect to glean these different parenting styles and adjust between members of the family. I don't think a babysitter should have any cultural input though. If they can't look after the children to your satisfaction you just don't ask them to.

If they take them they should be prepared to take care of the basics, feeding,pesonal care and to make sure that they are happy and comfortable, dont sent them tbh if you are not happy. I am not sure if you really need to tell them just dont leave them with the couple. My dd sometimes goes with her godmother and she is fantastic she washes her if she is dirty, feeds her and takes her out.

Can they shower independently? If so, I would just say to them next time that they need to have a shower at some point over the weekend and tell your friends that you have told the boys that.

Not sure If it's reasonable to expect your friends to bath two eight year olds, especially if they're not experienced with doing it- they might find it awkward or embarrassing.

It does sound like they are quite a handful for an older couple (esp if they havent had kids of their own) so they may need some direction.

amazed at so many people thinking other adults giving children sips of alcohol is ok! bet if it had been a sip of coca cola there'd have been outrage!
FWIW I had tiny sips from fairly young (maybe not as young as 8!!) and might do similar with my DCs but it's up to the parents to decide! We had DH's cousins here at a party when the eldest was 16/17 (no parents) and i didn't know whether to offer him alcohol or not

Did you send them with a change of clothes if one of your dts has a tendency to vomit? If they didn't change him because he didn't have anything to change into it wouldn't be good but it would be understandable.

Don't your dts have school friends that they spend time with and have sleepovers? That would help you feel less beholden to these friends who apparently don't follow your wishes despite being asked.

Stealth its a cultural thing, yes dd does have the odd fizzy drinks but not often and would give her sips of wine later when she is older at the table, my dh and i both come from Med families and this is the norm, we are not alcoholics with liver damage. In fact we hardly drink alcohol really just on occasion.

Nothing shocking, just in the UK where they have a bad attitude towards alcohol

I hate drink drivers.

The blood alcohol limit should be zero, not whatever small amount it is at the moment.

Definitely NBU to be worried about that.

Small sips of alcohol for children are legal I think but I would definitely ask before giving them to other peoples' DC!

They are elderly though I guess, and you have to make some allowances for their view of the world.

piglet, i actually think thats fine but would you to a friend's dc, without their parents' knowledge?

Well I think YABU. If you didn't like how things went the first time you shouldn't have sent your twins again. It's not really a compulsory requirement to have a night off away from the children, especially if you don't have anyone who will look after them the way you'd like. I haven't had a night off ever, nor do I want one.

From your further posts it sounds as though they are not capable of keeping your children clean/dry which is MORE of a problem.

I would just cut the overnight stays - I guess that if it's only been approx. once every 2-3 years then it will be fine to say: "Oh they are getting older and I feel too bad about putting them on someone else overnight now - and to be honest I don't have any need for them to stay with you at the moment".

Just cut the overnight stays - no reason to cut the friendship. They could always mind them for 2 or 3 hours if you need that.

YANBU. I can't believe that someone would give alcohol to a child without the parents consent.

I think that overnight stays are a bad idea , i would feel strange bathing/showering a friend's 8 year old son. and they would probably feel uncomfortable too, but they coyld have been encouraged into a bath that had been run for them..

i think it is unreasonable that the child who was sick was not changed into clean clothes before going out for the day

that is horrible and thoughtless

however, as you have allowed them to stay for 3 visits even after teh vomiting episode, you need to think about why you let them stay again if you were not confident your wisehs would be regarded

also if you had a falling out and lost contact for years and they don't listen to you and don;ts eem to look after your DCs properly, or the way you would like, is it worth maintaing the friendshoip?

I would also be more concerned with their inability to keep your children clean.
Does your children know how to shower and wash themselves?

My 7 year old son is happy to get up in the morning and have a shower on his own. He will dry himself off, get dressed, and then go and get himself breakfast. Not as a habit, but occasionally he does this before waking us up.

Maybe more than 1 night is too much for this couple? At least you should provide your children with a change of clothing and a towel, and some body wash in their toiletry bag when they go, and teach them how to shower in the bath.

We recently gave our son whiskey. He had been reading TinTin and was obsessed with Whiskey. So we let him taste a thimble full. Yuckety, he has not mentioned whiskey since. Having a sip, and realizing it is horrid, is not a bad thing! My dad gave me vodka when I was that age, it has honestly put me off for life!

oh no Stealth I would not just my own

I think as it is only occasionally and it means a lot to you to have a break I would let it go.I would find the glass of wine before driving on the edge of acceptable but one glass wouldnt put an adult man over the limit.YANBU to be concerned but you would lose more than you gained if you said anything.

YANBU

Do they know you wouldn't want your children having these things? If so, then they are deliberately ignoring your wishes and I would have words. Surrogate family or not. If they didn't know, tell them, you can't assume everyone does things the same way as you.

Hot choc is okay but no to alcohol and tea/coffee in my opinion.

Also tell your children to never get in a car with someone who has had an alcoholic drink and they are to phone you.

I can't believe anyone would give someone elses child alcohol. I don't happen to think there's anything wrong with a child satisfying their curiosity by having a sip - particularly as they won't like it & will be put off for a while at least but I would never give someone elses child even a taste of anything alcoholic.

It's pretty disgusting to leave a child in sicky clothes all day & to think it's ok for them to go without a bath or a shower for 2 days. At 8 aren't they old enough to do this themselves though? I'm not sure admittedly as my children are 4 & 7 weeks.

If I were you I wouldn't leave my children with them & if you think they're going to react so badly if you ask them to treat your children differently I'm not sure they're very good friends anyway.

Giving your own child sips of alcohol is fine, your decision.

Giving someone else's child sips of alcohol without their parent's permission is totally unnacceptable, and I'm suprised anyone would think otherwise.

The glass of wine before driving is a bit more difficult - depends on how much wine, how long afterwards he drove etc.

The general point though seems to be that your friends aren't capable of/willing to care for your children as you want them to be cared for. I guess you either have to accept that it's the pay off for getting occasional childcare, or you decide you can't live with it and don't let them stay again.

In answer to various points: One DS isn't v good with his personal hygiene/ self-care because of dyspraxia and Asps. The other could shower or bath if friends had allowed. If friends ran the bath, both DSs could at least attempt to bath alone - better than nothing.

Every time DSs have stayed, they've had plenty of clean clothes plus extras but friends didn't feel it necessary to make them change after vomiting episode etc.

Friends are not both 'elderly'. The woman IS but she looks and acts 20 yr younger and travels abroad regularly several times a yr, including to USA to spend a week looking after her grandchildren recently. She's brought up 4 children and is used to children and is also still working p/t.

Her much younger husband, in mid 50s looks in his 30's and is a f/t school teacher, although has never been a parent but helped wife to look after her grandchildren recently.

So both are healthy and active and have some experience with children.

I have never ever suggested that friends have children to stay and it was the woman who originally suggested it a couple of yrs ago, to give me a break, which was v v kind of her. The first two times away, DSs stayed only one night. It was the 2nd occasion that DS1 vomited but I had a talk with friends about how this third time, things could be different - eg the no hot drinks if it makes him vomit, please change clothes if one has accident/ vomits etc etc.

It never crossed my mind that they'd be drinking alcohol at lunchtime and dinnertime, drive whilst drinking and give alcohol to my son. On the other hand, the woman told me when she was a full-time single mum, yrs ago, when she got home from work, she locked her bedroom door on her children and drank wine, to wind down and she told me I should try this. So perhaps alarm bells should've rung then. I've never needed alcohol to relax me and it's never been a part of my life, except for a few brief yrs in my 20's when you party etc. But I 'grew out of it' yrs ago.

Friends had been visiting us and drove DSs back with them late evening for the first night, so it was actually two nights but only 1.25 days away.

Lots of opinions here....I'll wait till I've calmed down some more before deciding what to do. The thing that gets to me most if just the fact that I did request certain things this time of the friends, re. how they look after the children and from what my DSs have now told me, my friends seem deliberately NOT to have complied but also not told me that they haven't.

If they'd said, actually we don't agree with what you're asking and if you want us to have them to stay, it's got to be on our terms - then I could at least have some choice beforehand.

Having had three overnight breaks in almost 9 yrs (I have no family or ex and no one else who'd have them both at same time), it was really really helpful to have time to myself, though each time, I've used it to catch up on work, unhindered.

DCs haven't yet done sleepovers because of DS2 having problems with Asps/ dyspraxia and DS1 having problems with regular vomiting at night. I also don't think I could yet cope with one or two more children to look after overnight as well as my own two!

Just noticed from your OP that he threw up in the car. So that sounds like they had already set off for wherever they were going for the day. Maybe if it was a choice between calling the whole daytrip off or carrying on as he was they just thought it would be OK to do that?

I guess it would have been better if they had taken spare clothes but probably they didn't realise just how likely he was to vomit if they are not as used to him as you are. (It must have been a bit yucky for them as well to have sick in the car it takes ages to get rid of the smell)

You don't need to do/say anything. Just decline any further offers of babysitting in the future.