To be furious that my friends gave alcohol to my 8 yr old!

[Solo2]

DS aged 8 has just told me he was given a small amount of wine when he and twin recently stayed with them for 2 days. He also told me that he and twin were driven in a car in the afternoon by the husband, who'd been drinking wine at lunch.[anger]

I am mega-furious! Am I over-reacting? My twins have never had alcohol and I don't drink at all (I'm a single mum) and they know that it's illegal/ wrong for children to drink. But it's not DS1 fault. It's the bloody friends!

These friends have had the twins to stay twice before. The second time, they gave DS1 tea to drink - for his first time- at breakfast and he threw up everywhere in their car and they then made him stay out all day at various activities, covered in vomit. When they brought him home, he stank and needed bathing and afterwards, I made it really, really clear that they must NEVER give tea/ coffee to my children. I personally don't believe in hot drinks for children and I assumed my friends would respect my wishes.

Now I've found out the twins were also given hot choc. - which is no big deal but along with the news about the alcohol, it's clear that the friends are not respecting my wishes and actually sneakily giving things to my children that they KNOW I never would.

BUT.....these are the only people in my life who've ever had the twins to stay and it's been my only 3 occasions off-duty at night, in almost 9 yrs. These friends BTW are a woman of 77 - who looks and acts as if she were 52 and her much younger husband of 56. I've known them for yrs and yrs and she's been like a second mum to me. We have no family alive/ or involved in our lives, so these friends are almost like 'family'.

I imagine they were thinking it was a good, new experience for DSs to have, by giving them a small amount of wine (one DS refused) and that 'no harm was done'. I also imagine they're of the school of thought that a glass of wine is fine before driving - but they know I don't drink at all and believe that especially if children are in the car, best not to drink AT ALL!

So what do you think? Am I just too over-protective and neurotic or have I the right to be angry? If I broach it with the friends, I KNOW they'll be hugely angry and reactive. Several yrs ago, I had a falling out with them and we cut contact completely for yrs. So I'm risking losing them....however, if I say nothing, I'll not be wanting my twins to stay there again and then they'll wonder why....

If you want us to take your dcs SN into account, you need to make that clear in your OP. Otherwise, of course we will assume that normal conditions apply. Of course, it's a totally different kettle of fish with SN and you will need to take a totally different approach to your friends. But slightly irritating to spend that time carefully wording your posts to later be told that actually we're talking about something totally different.

The SN is quite a minor part of the issue though cory.

I dunno, it all sounds a bit weird to me, do you 100% trust them with your boys? SOmetimes children soil themselves to keep people away from them. I don't know you, you don't know me, I don't know them, but I do have an awareness of abuse and it's side effects. (Not personal but thru the family business)
The whole poo thing and giving them "treats" you don't allow makes little faint alarm bells ring.
Feel free to ignore me, but don't be offended, you asked!

YANBU, well maybe a little about the hot choc, but the alcohol -- no, they should not have given your children alcohol, SN or not. And they should have taken your child back to change clothes after he threw up. But you should have learned more than you learned from the first experience with these people.

I'd say no more staying with the friends for your children. There's no need to make a huge ruckus over this, just decline any offers they make in the future. Find a teenager or student who would be willing to babysit for money to let you get out occasionally. That way, you can have things done your way.

QOD, very astute comments.

OP, these friends do sound a leetle bit weird, now that I've read through the whole thread. They are challenging your boundaries in the nicest possible way. The forbidden food or drinks is a little like an 'our little secret' situation. And nothing breaks down barriers like alcohol, for adults and children alike.

This was starting to look like one of those threads where I'm convinced I'm actually on another planet where people have gone mad.

It is completely and utterly unreasonable for them to have given your child/ren alcohol. I can't believe anyone would seriously question this. It's not a 16 year old we're talking about here - and even more importantly - it's not THEIR child they gave it to, but someone else's.

Re the hot chocolate - not something I would be worked up about unless it's a question of allegeries and maybe they don't really 'believe' that they have them. That i would let go.

I sympathise with you re letting them sit again as if you're desperate and thinking: at least I KNOW them and they're trying to be helpful and maybe i'm being paranoid, etc etc.

But find another sitter. You will find someone you trust and you won't look back.

I haven't read all the replies but YANBU and I can't believe people think you are. It doesn't really matter what all the issues are, the fact is there are things that you do not wish them to have and they are completely ignoring that. It is your choice if you don't want you DCs to have hot drinks, not everyone on here to tell you that YABU for not letting them ffs.

The wine thing would have really pissed me off. Yes I know that over 5 they are allowed a bit in your own home, but I still wouldn't actually give it to an 8 year old or allow anyine else to, I also wouldn't drive with DCs in the car after having any alcohol. And staying out all day with a DC covered in vomit! That is really disgusting. I would have a chat with them, free childcare or not, if they do not respect YOUR wishes as the mum of DCs, then they shouldn't go there IMHO.

Missus, as far as the hot chocolate goes, I'd say the SN makes the whole difference between YABU and YANBU.

To me, an NT child of 8 who knows hot chocolate makes him throw up, has only himself to blame if he drinks the chocolate and throws up and I'd probably just shrug my shoulders and treat it as a risk he chose to take.

The wine question otoh seems beyond dispute.

It was tea that made the child throw up I think. The issue is more that the OP asked her friends not to give her children hot drinks and they still did - regardless of whether the child accepts or not.

I suppose by that age I expect my dcs to do a lot the negotiating themselves without instructions from me. When ds goes off to play at his friend's house or for a sleepover, I don't include an instructions manual: I expect him to use his common sense.

The driving - how much did he drink? Was he likely to be over the legal limit? If just a glass of wine then I can't see the problem. One glass of wine is very unlikely to be a problem for a grown adult to drive, nless a huge one.

Giving your 8y alcohol to drink - YANBU. I know it is not illegal to give an over 5 alcohol in your own home, however you definitely don;t give someone else's child alcohol, not eve a sip. My own 7y has tried a small amount of alcohol, but I'd never give it to any other visiting child, not even a tiny nit.

The hot chocolate - not sure on the problem here. Can hot chocolate at 8y really be a problem? Tea and coffee are not recommended under 5y, and although not ideal for older children, it isn't actually a massive problem. They were not likely to know your child would react to tea in this way.

Them making your child stay covered in vomit all day - very odd and would be concerned if it had been my child. What did they say?

If these are friends you have previously fallen out with, and who have already gone against your wishes and left your child cvered in vomit for a full day - why did you let them go unsupervised with them again? That is the main thing I don't understand.

A slightly different perspective perhaps...

Of course giving your child alcohol and letting him stay in vomit covered clothes for a day is not great and YANBU to be a little miffed. But, you could think of this as an opportunity for your children to experience being cared for by someone else, who does things in a rather different way to how you would do them. They didn't come to any long term harm and weren't put in danger. Perhaps they had a good time (in parts) and learnt to appreciate your fantastic care a little (a tall order for most 8 year olds)

I remember a week long visit, when i was around 8, to a friend and her family, who were very different to my family. I had a great time for some of the time, but was a bit shocked at all the smacking and shouting that went on, and was so so pleased to be home. I truly appreciated my gentle Mum and Dad.

Just a few thoughts!

Sighing sadly at the idea that anyone thinks it is OK to give a child alcohol without the parent's permission (or even with really...)

Would it be different if they had let the children have a drag of a cigarette!!!?

No i wouldent clemette we dont smoke that is entirely different from giving a couple of sips of wine no comparison really imo.

I would say your children are wondering why you let them stay with these people. I don't think the term 'cared for' can be used here -- the children were neglected and treated inappropriately in the friends' home and in their car.

YANBU
I would not want my children to be kept in vomit covered clothing all day.
They gave them alcohol, without asking you first.
I would never let them take care of my children again after that. They are careless and not responsible, especially for special needs children.

It is up to you whether you tell them off or not. They obviously are not up to your standards in caring for your children.

You could remain close friends without them having the kids unsupervised. Perhaps when the children are old enough to keep themselves clean you could give it another try.
(How about hiring a a proper nanny for those times?)

Piglet, why no comparison? With my medic hat on both are dangerous toxins, both kill thousands in this country. Yet we demonise cigarettes and try to normalise alcohol. At a cellular level, one drag would cause similar (admittedly minimal) damage as a few sips of alcohol.
If paid childcare gave an 8 year old alcohol then there would, rightly, be a massive outcry so why is this situation OK? Why should anyone have the right to give something damaging to the OP's children...?

As i said its a cultural thing, we come from a mediterranean family where this is the norm and across the continents its the norm to, but they dont thave the alcohol problems that we do over here. I would not give it all the time only on occasion as i used to have myself, i am perfectly healthy thank you, my dh or myself do not drink really all that much only on occasion once or twice a month. I personally think that like everything its been exagerated tbh. This is not a recent thing, sips of alcohol have been given to kids for years, i think that it develops a healthy attitude to alcohol insdead of all this alcohol is bad for you which its not if you are sensible about it. Cigarettes are bad full stop, you are basically breathing in toxic substances which are damaging your body straight away and are at risk of passing on your smoke to other people, no comparison imo sorry Clemete.

Nobody has a right Clemette to give that to another child not your own that i agree with you, though my dd is not old enough yet she will on occasion be given a little bit of wine watered diluted by water or lemonade or a weak shandy as my dh and i were given as kids. We are definitely not alcoholics and just drink very rarely and have a good attitude towards alcohol.

And do not suffer from any alcohol type illness thank you. Well you could say the same thing about junk food, the biological processes that go on in the body when you consume a fatty burger and chips or anything really. Have you seen that film about the guy who ate Macdonalds everyday for a month and the damage it did to his body. Where does it stop, we are becoming a nanny state. I do agree that i would never give alcohol to somebody eleses child and my own only a tiny amount with water

But did they have a good time though? I cant find it anywhere where you have said they had an absolute blast, loved every minute, was a real hoot etc etc. If they thought it was the best weekend ever then it would be worth carrying on. If they didnt really enjoy it then no need to repeat.

My argument is less about the long-term effects of either but about the specifics of one-off exposure. The health effects are the same so it surprises me that people don't think the same way about this particular scenario.
I concede that parental choice rules here, but don't really ever buy the "it's my culture and dud me no harm so..." argument. My childhood culture was Northern working class and my mum cooked every meal using lard. I am not overweight but still doesn't mean I would do the same to my own children (though there is a lot if my cultural heritage I would pass on). Surely the thing with tradition is that each generation is better informed and we use that information to examine whether our traditions are safe for future generations.

Erm i totally disagree with you Clem it did us no harm, its just toally exaggerated imo, i have never ever heard of children who were given a ittle alcohol on occasion having any health problems later on, actually people on the Med are on the whole quite healthy tbh and have a better attitude to alcohold than us. You see all those kids who may have not had alochol as a child, they are doing more damage to their bodies than say a person who had a little alcohol as a child who how has a healthy atituded to it. Sorry but you do sound like you are from the nanny state, where next banning anything that is bad for you to eat. Well i did hear once that there would be 5 a day monitors going round to houses at dinnertime do see whether you are eating properly.

Just go into any city on a Fri/Sat night and you will see the damage that these youngsters are doing to themsleves, having a weeks woth of units in one night, thats what we should be tackling not giving a sip of wine to a child on occasion. look at other countries like Europe who do not have this problem and see what they do, and you will find that children have a little alcohol with meals. My fil was a GP in Italy and is very aware of the chemical processes of alcohol and would never give something that he thought would cause harm to, my dh is very healthy hardly drinks and just eats too much imo.

At 7 i drank my dad pint of beer behind his back, i hate the stuff and dont really see the apeal and alcohol in general tbh. could not drink wine regularly as i dont really like the taste all that much oh dear i am going to be flamed for this