MIL - I don't know what to do - LONG

[PoodlesandDoodles]

Sorry, name changed for this as I don't really want it to be found.

My MIL and I have an odd relationship - I'm not particularly worldly or glam but she has lived in the same tiny village all her life and has a very narrow world view so she sees me as completely wild and quite scary (I have lived in London, been to universtiy etc). She was also very confined to her own home for years as she was the sole carer for her (very demanding) disabled husband.

Her husband died in February 2009 and she has been a little more outgoing since - however years and years of being worn down by her DH has shattered her confidence, she suffers badly from anxiety and she refuses to drive outwith a few routes from her own house.

We invited her to spend Christmas Day with us, however because of the road conditions (NE Scotland) she ended up arriving on the 24th (when she could get a lift in from someone else) and staying until the 26th (when my DH took her home). TBH I think that would have happened anyway - despite the roads - when we initially invited her for the day her initial reaction was that there would be no buses and she became very anxious about driving. However (I feel) that we really don't have room for her to stay without disrupting our children a lot and tbh I was really upset by the very late change to the Christmas arrangements.

I'm 38 weeks pg and, for Christmas, my DH (who understandably defends his Mum a lot) insisted that she would be a great boon to the family, would help out lots, would mean I was so much more relaxed, she'd be able to tidy all the places in our house that I've not been able to keep on top of etc etc - this actually WASN'T the case - as she has visited our home so very very rarely she wasn't comfortable, she was very anxious and didn't help out at all (didn't offer, I felt I couldn't directly ask her to do things, she didn't even offer to make a cup of tea). In the end I had to joke (to my Mum, not my DH) that her specific brand of helping me seemed to be in her "warming the sofa" abilities.

Now, I'm booked in for a c-section in 8 days time but I obviously could go into labour at any point from now on. My Mum is coming back today from a trip to her sisters (3 hours away) but she is normally only 15 mins down the road. She helps me out a lot with the girls, drops my eldest off at school, is happy on occassions when I need her to help with pick ups etc...

However, my Dh insists that if/when things happen with this baby, his Mum must ALSO be called upon to "help". I absolutely cannot see what help she will be able to provide. She will not drive here, so cannot come in an emergency or during the night - we'd be waiting hours for her to get a bus or find someone to bring her, as oppossed to about 50 mins if she would drive. She cannot take my DDs to school or any of their activities as she won't drive and has no idea where they are (My Mum has taken her around and shown her all these places but it was obvious she was paying no attention at all).

I had 1 contraction the other day and my DH made it obvious that there was no need for my Mum to be called at all, his Mum would be adequete help and childcare etc even if that was it and I/He were out of commission for 5 days while I'm in hospital (he wants to spend as much time in the hospital as he can with myself and the baby)....

But she can't HELP. She only ever sees the girls in HER house for a few hours at the time because she simply isn;t part of their life here. She has no idea of their bedtime routine for example or what we consider acceptable meals or behaviour (one example from Christmas was that she went up to say goodnight to the girls, DD1 wasn't sleeping and my MIL sent her down the stairs to get some toys to take to her room - her new remote control car - it sounds like a really lame thing to be upset about but my Dh and I both instantly told her that was not a bedtime toy, my DD was upset, she wanted back into her own bed and her own room - MIL had been put in her bed in her room - and DD1 cried for a long long time - yes its trivial but it was un-necessary upset for her and more bed swapping) She has no idea what they do (its all written on the calendar so she would know when their activities are) but even if she knows she cannot/will not take them.

Every time she has come through to "help" she has sat on the sofa and not moved. I was admitted to hospital about 6 weeks ago with adbominal pains, she came through that day to help (my Dh had to go to work, my Mum was here looking after the girls) and my Mum says that all she did all that day was sit on the sofa and then go for the bus home.

I can absolutely understand that she wants to be closeby in order to see the baby, but I'm not happy to leave her in charge of the girls for long periods of time, and their lives are going to be disrupted enough without them missing school/playgroup etc....My poor Mum will end up doing all that herself as well as entertaining and chatting to my MIL as she warms the sofa looking anxious as she simply isn't comfortable in our home.

Anyway, most of that is all just background to my main question . I accept that she will be here while I'm in hospital and when I come home. Today I had an idea that I thought might be helpful and I've put little labels on the kitchen cupboards with what is in them, so she'll know where the plates and the tea bags, and the cups the girls use etc are. I've also put up a sheet on the cupboard explaining about DD1's snack and drink that she needs to take to school every day. However now I'm panicking that my Dh will see that as patronising - I know that she could just open all the cupboards and see what is in each of them but I also know in her previous visits she hasn't done this...if my Dh insists she is going to be here to "help" then I want to help her to do that...

But is it really patronising to do this (its NOT a big kitchen - it would take about 15 seconds to open all the cupboard doors and look in them to see what is where...)

I really feel for your MIL imagine yourself in her place in 30 years time.

If it wasn't for her you wouldn't have the family you have now and you complain over her visiting for two days.

I think that you are feeling very overwhelmed and a little nervous about the arrival of the baby. Pregnancy hormones are making you even more over protective for your DC's. I know, because at 38 weeks pregnant, I am the same.

I think that your DH thinks/ feels that his mother is either being sidelined or that she needs help getting out of her shell. And that giving her these responsibilities will help her.

The bottom line is that DC's are resilient. Everything you have cited - whilst totally impractical - none of it makes me think she couldnt look after your DC's safely.

But - dont get me wrong. In your shoes, I would totally want my mother there. Being away from your DC's for 3-5 days after a section is hard enough without worrying about them aswell.

I actually really cannot help you as it seems to be a no win situation. Can the compromise be to have both grandmothers there to help?

Yup.
Ds1 survived eating Cadburys roses for breakfast with a glass of milk for 3 weeks while my own mil cared for him, when he was 3 years old, and I was laid up in bed after ds2 was born. His only complaint was wearing the same clothes everyday.

Don't know what has got into me today but all I can think is: poor woman.

She's anxious and lacking in confidence and is being excluded. Your only problem with her seems to be that she doesn't know your DC's routines or clean and allowed your dd to get a new toy at bedtime on CHRISTMAS DAY!

She doesn't belittle you, she isn't rude or manipulative. She doesn't disregard the DC or shout or bully or neglect.

I feel almost tearful!

I think your DH should stay and do most of the looking after/housework etc. Then your DCs won't have too much distruption, surely he wouldn't be allowed in the hospital all day?

Jesus, of course she's anxious, you sound like the worst kind of overbearing control freak.

I think you are out of order to consider her an imposition.

I am actually quite on her behalf.

Come on ladies... you're being really harsh to the OP!
She's about to give birth to no..what? 3?
She's likely to have a C section and her Dh has been mentally ill during a previous birth.. of course she's feeling anxious.
and yes, the Mil should be included... but is now really the best time? right now?, because her dh says so?
I think you should try and relax OP, get your own mum involved as much as you like, get things settled to your satisfaction. Leave Dh and Mil to sort themselves out and address her loneliness and lack of involvement after the birth.

I can see why you'd be stressed about this!

However, I don't think your MIL is the problem - it's your DH! If he understood that you are, you know, having a baby, then surely he would see it as his job to organise who is staying where looking after who - and manage his mother.

I think there is a thread on Aspergers DHs in relationships or somewhere - maybe you could find a way of wording your concerns so that he understands them better?

I don't think it's acceptable that he simply insists on your MIL being there without bearing in mind the consequences this has for you (being worried about your DDs the entire time you're in hospital). Your DDs won't necessarily come to any harm, but you would be stressed and worried, which is a valid reason for putting your foot down.

Why were you so upset when your DH commented on the house being a state? He lives there too, doesn't he?

I feel for your MIL too. As others have said this is a pretty shite time for her. As an aside she'll need you at least as much or even more next Christmas - I found that the second Christmas after my Mum died was harder work than the first.

If having her there would make you uncomfortable and make life harder for you, then no, she shouldn't be asked to help.

I might get flamed for this, but I do think it's very different having your own Mum around after you've had a baby compared to your MIL. Saying that, my MIL did a huge amount for us after DS was born (she still does), but she lives nearby and we have a very close relationship. My Mum lives quite far away and was also looking after my niece when DS was born, so couldn't have come anyway.

You must do what makes you most comfortable and your DH must support you in that.

Cross posted, Ingles2 - that's exactly it!

I also feel sorry for your MIL, she sounds very lost and clearly you are a capable mum, and your mum is a capable gran who needs no help...where is a role for her, that she can cope with, taking into consideration her cloistered life as a carer and her anxiety?

However, I do agree that the main problem is your DH. He is seeing a very black and white, equal situation where there isn't one. eg Your mum helps therefore my mum will help.

I think you need to carve out a different relationship with your MIL that is not based on her helping you. her nature, and your family situation being what it is with your mum, means that she doesn't need to help you. But she is your children's granny, and she is your DH's mum. I would personally have her around just to be company for your dd's. Let her know that it doesn't matter, your mum will take them to school etc. She can just be there to chat. It's nice that she wants to be there. It's nice sometimes to be wanted for your company alone, not what you can do for someone. Just let her feel included.

Poor woman can't do anything right, can she? After all those years caring for a difficult husband she's now being found wanting in your household!It's no wonder that she sits, anxiously stunned into complete torpor given the lack of tolerance that seems to be routinely shown.

Your children won't suffer any sort of permanent trauma from a spot of disruption - ffs, my ds1 was brought in to visit his baby brother wearing a TEA TOWEL for a nappy!! - but actually, your MIL might well come up trumps if left on her own without judgemental eyes upon her.

I don't think it is actually patronising to label things or at least leave very clear lists, incidentally. I've got a fairly commodious kitchen and would much rather help people find things than I would leave them struggling in my absence.

Thankyou Nom
I just don't get why everyone is saying she should be more with concerned with her Mil's wishes and involvment now...that takes time and energy and surely that's dh's job. She's a week away from major surgery FFS..

I think that about to give birth and having a new baby is NOT the time to start forming a whole new relationship with a MIL who sounds like she has a few mental health issues (extreme anxiety and lack of self confidence).

The time to sort this out is when the household has settled down with its new addition.

The best thing you can do is tell your DH you will not be up to sorting out your MIL and if she comes, he has to do anything the MIL can't/won't while you recover from the ceasarean.

ingles she should have been concerned with MIL's wishes and involvement since she was involved withher DH, although clearly she hasn't. It is difficult for her to complain now it has been brought to her attention.

The OP (with her own mum) as sidekick sound really unwelcoming and a bit cruel. So she doesn't want her MIL about. Tough luck really. The MIL hasn't behaved badly (except in so far as she has failed to prove to the DIL that she is not useless) and she has as much "right" to be around as the OP's mother.

An extra pair of hands is always useful and the OP isn't even going to have to deal with her directly,

These threads make me weap for the day when my DS (3!) gets married

I agree with Bigus Bumus (love the name btw!). Are there jobs she could be specifically asked to do. She clearly doesn't like driving but actually asking her to do something specific might be helpful. Keeping on top of the washing & ironing could be a winner.

Maybe she's worried about parking or something at the hospital. I'm also anxious about driving but it's mainly the parking that does it. Could you say it's ok for her to call your DH if she has trouble parking at the hosp and your DH could pop out and help/encourage her. Or could your DH do a few runs with her before so she's more confident with the route. I think it's worth a chat with her.

Congrats btw. Hoping it all goes well for you.

so it's not a three way street then Nancy? Not Dh, Mil and OP?
You know I'm sad for the Mil, she's had a difficult time and suffered a major loss,, but this time now is about the OP.
Everything else should and will have to wait until she's recovered from the C section.

So as it stands your mum AND your mil are going to be at your house looking after the children together while you're in hospital? Is that right? Sounds like a disaster! Your mum is already established as grandma with the mostest and mil won't get a chance to show her mettle. Chances ae she'll do much better with sole care. Can't MIL come to stay and be chief childcarer while you're in hospital and your mum could pop over every other day to take the girls out for short trips? That would give mil a bit of respite and your mum would be able to check that everyone's coping alright. Then they could swap roles once you come out of hospital so that your mum is around to support you in those early days.

Labelling the cupboard doors is a complete no-no, I'd say, but listing what everyone needs for school is fine. Very sensible, in fact.

Have you seen the film Uncle Buck?

Agree with thte others that you do sound like you and your mum have been excluding your MIL...hence her reluctance to move of f hte sofa!

But also you are pregnant so therefore likely to obsess about stuff in a not necessarily rational manner!!

I would say to chill about your MIL helping with everything...surely your mum can do the school runs as she is so capable! Sometimes you need to button lips...the xmas day eg you give about the toy is a good one...sometimes you just have to step back and let thtem get on with it. Your dd having a non-bedtime toy is not really a major issue so just let things like that go!

Your kids will be fine if their routines are not strictly kept too...in fact it will probably do them good to learn how to be flexible...it does sound like your need for routine is YOUR need more than theirs.

Re c/s...it is a big op not having had 2 emergency ones they are not that big a deal...you will be fine.

On a practical level i would say yes remove the labels...they will make you look like a mad control freak and are patronising. Let your MIL help out, if she wants to.....ask her if she wants to help and if she does, what she is comforatable to do otherwise tell her she is welcome to come and just coo overthe baby and see you dd's.

Easy to say but try and relax about everything!!!

As before, I say again, now is not the time to be trying to create a new role for MiL.

I also second Ingles.

How on earth would MiL cope in the role of chief carer when she's already made it clear that she doesn't even want to learn the way to school so that she could, if necessary, do the school run?

Come on folks, too many people stuck inside because of the snow today. Lighten up. The OP is not trying to cut out MiL, is not the wicked DiL that wants to exclude her from the family - it was her that ensured she had an invitation for Christmas that both her DH and BiL hadn't thought about.

It seems to me that the OP IS trying to involve MiL and try to bring her into the family - its not her fault that MiL's position as carer has stopped this from happening.

However, it sounds as though the ONLY way in which she will be remotely relaxed about dds is if her mother (who is used to dealing with them and is capable of getting them to school) is looking after them whilst new baby arrives. Would you, in a similar circumstance, also want your mother to look after your MiL who doesn't appear to be willing to even ask if she can do something helpful? The only way that this might work is to get Mother on-board and literally asking MiL whether she could do x, y, z whilst the school run is happening or similar.

I feel very sorry for all concerned. OP - you sound like you are doing your upmost to be flexible and involve MIL without causing too much unnecessary upset to the running of your household. You sound like you are very understanding about your mother's background as well as your DH's AS. I like the idea about actually talking to the MIL about all of this as (for whatever varied reasons) it sounds as though, as much as she might want to help, she doesn't know how). I am sure that you would hate to cause her undue stress and anxiety.

There are lots of ways she can help with shopping, cooking, having the DC kids at her house for a few hours, ironing etc etc as Skegness and other's suggested. It would be a good idea to find out what she is happiest doing. It does sound as though your DS has decided what would be best for everyone but maybe slightly misguided.

BTW - I am a huge advocate for MILs and hate to see grannies being sidelined or left out of the loop in anyway but I think it is entirely uncalled for to say that PoodlesandDoodles is being 'cruel', 'control freak', 'intimidating' or 'overbearing'!!! Read the original post carefully and it is clear to see that the OP is going out of her way to try to ensure that everyone, primarily her children get through the next few weeks happily, healthy and with their feelings intact.

It sounds tome as if OPs husband wants to make sure that his mum is involved as much as possible.

It seems circumstance rather than choice have left her not having much of a relationship with her grandchildren.

But from the husbands point of view-if his MIL is moving in for a few days, he´s perhaps not that thrilled about that and would rather it be his own mum.

Hi Everyone - sorry I had to pop out for a couple of hours there and I've come back and I see I have some serious thinking to do.

I'm HONESTLY not as bad as I seem - I've been her DIL for 12 years and in that time I have been out to see her every 2 weeks, I've never refused to go with Dh even though I'm as uncomfortable in her home as she is in mine. She had, until her DH died (and he wasn't always as ill as he was at the end, he was just always very demanding) been in our house about 6 times in that 12 years because she will not travel from her village into the town we live - although she would drive her Dh to the hospital 5 mins drive from our house. I'm always the one to include her in what we can, in special occassions etc - my Dh and my BIL would never think of her and BIL's wife dislikes her and makes no effort at all, never visits and never invites even though they are 8 miles up the road. I'm the one who nags my Dh to phone her when I know there is an issue - his Grannie is ill at the moment and I'm desparately having to cajoule him into phoning her to find out how everything is going rather than doing what he would do which is wait for her weekly phone call to come.

I'm honestly not that bad - yes I did comment to my Mum about her warming my sofa but that was after she had gone home, we weren't tittering in the kitchen, making in jokes and things while she was here.

I've never intentionally done anything to intimidate this woman, I've never boasted about my education or where I've lived - SHE is intimidated by me because she discovered once in a conversation that I used to be a teacher and that I had lived in London (both of which were before I met DH) - I can't help if that makes me scary and intimidating in her book. If I'm intimidating because I'm too "capable", again what am I supposed to do...I HAVE to be "capable", I'm a SAHM, I'm here while her son works long hours, or away, or is very ill (which, like I say she doesn't even know about because HE refused to tell her even though he was very very ill for 2 years with depression, anxiety and paranoia) - again, what am I supposed to do...be incapable because it might make me less scary.....??

Yes I'm worried about my section - this will be my 3rd, I had a very traumatic birth the last time leading me to suffering from PTSD (my Dh collapsed, fitting in the labour room and missed my DD2's birth because he was rushed to A&E in an ambulance) - I have a large amount of scar tissue and adhesions, I'll need a general anaesthetic at least at some point in the birth process (with I'll get a spinal for the actual birth and then be knocked out after the baby is born, or I'll be unconcious throughout. I'm hearing lots of horror stories about how quickly my hospital are sending C-Section Mums home at the moment and I'm worried that I'll be sent home before I'm ready, esp as they will be doing additional surgery on the scar tissue and adhesions whilst they are "in".

I have to agree with others that this is NOT THE TIME to start addressing my relationship with my MIL - yes I'm probably very harsh sounding but I'm probably the person who gives her the most credit for having gone through a lot recently - far more than either of her sons and her other DIL. However its important to me at the moment that I'm surrounded by supportive people and she simply isn;t supportive...now whether thats because she can't be, or she is too scared of me, or because she has no confidence, or because I have shut her out or because I'm too horrible a person...for whatever reason she ISN'T supportive of me....SHE said she was "coming to help" at Christmas and didn't at any point offer to make even a cup of tea....

Sometimes it's a good idea to throw your hands in the air and say "to hell with it". Let everyone else get on with it.

It sounds to me like you're trying not to think about the c-section and that's making you worry about all the things that you know in your heart you can't control.

At the end of the day, like loads of others have said, it doesn't matter if the girls don't stick to their routine for a few days, they won't suffer terribly if they eat more chocolate than usual or watch more tv, or miss school or whatever. In fact, they'll probably remember it through their lives as the exciting and different time they had when their new sister/brother arrived.

No matter who looks after them while you're in hospital, the girls will be disrupted simply because you're not there. You will have to work to return the house/their routines to normal later. So go on. Throw your hands in the air and just let them get on with it.

Let someone else take control and do it their way. You just focus on your gorgeous new arrival and chill.