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AIBU?

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Original poster

to be called racist

159 replies

UpsyOne · 26/12/2009 20:52

in a nutshell

I am white with white children, friend of several years is black with black children.

I was looking after friends DS who is under 5 at her house. Her elderly mother lives with her as she is poorly and not well enough to look after children - she was there with me.

Her DS was attention seeking in a cute way, kept pretending to fall over and bump his head to get me to fuss him. When he did it I would call him a little monkey, make monkey noises and encourage him to make monkey noises back to me.

In hindsight I do realise that racists will call black people monkeys as an insult.

But I believe in evolution and therefore believe that we all descend from monkeys. Not only that, I do the whole "you little monkey" thing with my own children.

My friend has been really off with me since as I apparently upset her mum (wasnt aware of it at the time) and her mum actually called me a racist!!

Am I being unreasonable to think the whole thing is just ridiculous or was I somehow out of order?

OP posts:
Original poster
UpsyOne · 27/12/2009 21:36

hello! wow this thread has a life of its own now.

Just thought I would update as good news, but first I would like to remind some people that I wasn't sat there making monkey noises at friends DS as some people seem to think.

I called him a little monkey on several occassions while I was playing with him and then asked him what do monkeys say? At which point we would both make monkey noises, this is a game I play with my own children and whenever we see an animal whether in the park or in a book I ask them what said animal says.

I bumped into friend and her mum at coffee shop, was a bit awkward at first but I insisted on buying chocolate cake which broke the ice.

Her mum apologised to me and explained that since she became ill she feels very vulnerable (she was always a strong and independent woman prior to her illness) and that her medication does affect her moods and make her sensitive and emotional. She is very sorry for calling me racist as she knows I am not. My friend also apologised and said that she was distraught to see her mum so upset and wasn't actively being off with me but was focused on her mum and although pissed off that I was the cause of her upset, she wasn't sat there brooding thining Upsy is racist.

I feel like a total idiot. While they've been dignified and on with things I've been on here all idignant to have been called racist.

They are both quite happy for me to continue playing such games with friends children.

Grandmother has been called a monkey in the past but she is over it and knows that the problem lies with the name caller and not her.

Friend has never been called a monkey.

I feel terrible for making a poorly old lady cry.

OP posts:
BetsyBoop · 27/12/2009 21:38

"So calling it ridiculous for example..."

Not sure if that was aimed at me or just in general, but my first post on the thread was pretty much on the same lines as my last...

"we have two cheeky monkeys in this house too, it would never occur to me that anyone would think it an offensive term when used as a term of endearment to small children.

In your shoes I would probably write a letter to your friend (as she's being funny on the phone) and explain no offence intended, sorry if any was taken etc"

BetsyBoop · 27/12/2009 21:40

x-post

I'm just glad the misunderstanding has been amicably resolved Upsyone

TheFallenMadonna · 27/12/2009 21:40

Sorry BB - that was a quote from the OP, in relation to your last post.

But all resolved now. Good

MillyR · 27/12/2009 21:42

Upsy, good for you that you got it all sorted out. It is really nice when people put in the hard work to keep a good friendship going, especially at this time of year when everyone's feeling a bit fraught.

ImSoNotTelling · 27/12/2009 21:42

Phew. So all's well that ends well

qwertpoiuy · 27/12/2009 21:45

Aw, i'm so pleased it's sorted...

illgetyoubutler · 27/12/2009 21:47

the muslim being offended at the peppa pig book is a bit ott.
i speak as a muslim myself.
we are prohibited from eating "the flesh of swine".. that's all.
we definatley do not need to run a mile at the sight of a pig on a book, or feel deep offense at anything pig related given or offered to us!
my dd has a play farm with a pig, amongst other farmyard animals, which makes realistic "oink" noises. there is no harm in this.

sorry to give my 5pence worth, i mean no offence or wish to annoy anyone. but i do sigh and roll my eyes when i hear instances of the one given. and its a perfect example of ignorance on a muslims behalf, which can potentially cause discord and stress to others who mean well.

fairycake123 · 27/12/2009 21:51

illgetyoubutler - that's a really interesting point of view to me, because years ago when I was running a playgroup, we were making masks one day, and I gave the kids the choice of dogs, cats or pigs.

Of course, the only 2 Muslim children in the group (aged 2.5 and 4) chose pigs... the look on their mum's face when they ran out to greet her at the end of the day in their pig masks is something I'll never forget. I was mortified. I feel a bit better about it now!

BetsyBoop · 27/12/2009 21:53

Illgetyoubutler - thanks for that, and it serves me a timely reminder not to generalise

I did think it was a bit OTT myself when I heard the story from my friend, but on the other hand I would have hated to have caused offence by doing the same either...

ImSoNotTelling · 27/12/2009 21:59

This is where a lot of problems arise isn't it - as it's down to what will offend the recipient, and there is no way of predicting that for things which aren't obvious. Then people can end up tiptoeing around which actually puts barriers up rather than bringing them down, and makes people feel uncomfortable with each other rather than all getting along swimmingly which is surely what we would all want.

TheShriekingHarpy · 27/12/2009 22:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TheShriekingHarpy · 27/12/2009 22:03

This reply has been deleted

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CocoK · 27/12/2009 22:03

You were unintentionally offensive - it happens. Explain, apologise, and move on.

illgetyoubutler · 27/12/2009 22:04

honestly fairycake, dont sweat it!

ADingDongDandyChristmasLioness · 27/12/2009 22:12

TheShriekingHarpy - I was talking specifically about monkey noises, not cheeky monkey, but I agree that cheeky monkey is very commonly used. If you read all my posts, particularly my first, you will see that I said the OP wasn't being racist, just a bit tactless, and that 'cheeky monkey' on its own would probably have been fine. I and others were simply pointing out that the grandmother may have had a knee-jerk reaction to this because of incidients of racism in her past. Indeed, it turns out that she was called a monkey.

I think this thread has got a bit carried away really. The peppa pig incident isn't racist IMO. As for the nursery worker - in answer to someone's question - I do vaguely remember reading about it in the paper. I believe she was specifically targetting that child. Indeed, she must of. Because making monkey noises with a group of toddlers is a reasonable thing to do. It is all about context, intent and whether the person on the receiving end takes offence and makes that known.

OP - I'm very glad it got resolved

nooka · 27/12/2009 22:24

Good outcome. However I am surprised that so many people are unaware that making monkey noises at black people has not been used as a way of abusing them for some time and in a fairly widespread way. But maybe it's about where you live and/or grew up. I grew up in London, which obviously is very diverse, and perhaps that just makes me much more aware of the extent and variety of racism (not just to black people, but also to the Irish) and therefore more sensitive to it.

Also if you have ever been abused you do get very personally sensitive - for example I come from a fairly posh family and was sent to a school in a much more deprived area, and so if anyone says anything disparaging about posh accents (fnah fnah type stuff) it makes me feel very vulnerable because it reminds me of the jibes and brings back the hurt feelings I had as a child. I am conscious of this so I try not to over react, but if what I thought was abuse was aimed at my children I'd find it difficult not to be very upset because we are programmed to defend our children in a way that's probably not terribly rational.

confuddledDOTcom · 27/12/2009 22:27

I remember a few years ago the leader of the local mosque got rather upset and wrote an article for the local paper because he was fed up of things like "three little pigs" being turned into "three little puppies" to avoid "offending the muslims". As illgetyoubutler has said all it does is put up barriers and misunderstanding making the situation worse. illgetyoubutler, did you read that article because you could have been quoting it!

Doesn't everyone talk about animals and do the noises with their children? There's a difference between someone playing with a child and insulting a child. I think it's obvious that actually the friend and her mother thought that too.

I grew up in an area where I - as caucasian - was in the minority, I never paid attention to the colour of people's skin because they were all people, friends or not friends, whatever. I also have a lot of cousins and friends who are black, I go to a church where the members are mostly black. I have to admit it's not a term I've heard around here as a racist term. I think there is a difference in using words like the N word that is only an insulting word and saying "cheeky monkey" when monkey is mostly used as a normal word. It's like the difference between the F word and bloody. The F word never has a context where it's not swearing, but it's not swearing to say you have a bloody nose.

Kaloki · 27/12/2009 22:32

"However I am surprised that so many people are unaware that making monkey noises at black people has not been used as a way of abusing them for some time and in a fairly widespread way."

I have to hold my hand up and say that I didn't realise. Thinking about it though, I can see why it is an insult, but I've never heard it used. Where I grew up has a fairly small black population, so it just never came up.

illgetyoubutler · 27/12/2009 22:35

nope, but i'd be interested to hear who wrote it!

confuddledDOTcom · 27/12/2009 22:57

Not sure who wrote it, it was whoever was in charge of the Birmingham mosque. Birmingham are getting a little ridiculous - Christmas was actually banned one year in favour of "Winterville", Three Little Puppies, Baa Baa Rainbow/Pink (depending on school) Sheep etc. It's always said it's to avoid offending the muslims and he'd had enough of it.

I hate racism, I've never had much experience of it growing up as I grew up around mostly black and asian people but I think that as most of my friends are and I have a lot of family that are black I get upset for them BUT I hate this enforced anti-racism (as I've described) that causes division and misunderstanding. In every school I've been in muslim, hindu and sikh festivals have been celebrated, if parents are offended they can remove their children. Why should Christmas be different? Most people in this country celebrate it whatever religion they are.

fairycake123 · 27/12/2009 23:00

confuddledDOTcom - "Birmingham are getting a little ridiculous - Christmas was actually banned one year in favour of "Winterville", Three Little Puppies, Baa Baa Rainbow/Pink (depending on school) Sheep etc. It's always said it's to avoid offending the muslims and he'd had enough of it."

Can you site some legislation?

MillyR · 27/12/2009 23:04

Here is an article on the myths put about that PC people are trying to ban Christmas:

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/08/religion.communities

It includes the myth about the Birmingham Winterval.

The Peppa Pig thing was supposedly claimed as racist by BB's friend's sister's child's friend's father. Nobody on this thread has said that a Peppa Pig toy is a racist gift.

confuddledDOTcom · 27/12/2009 23:14

I know people who work for Birmingham Council that had it come down from the top that year, it made the local news, in the end the uproar stopped it from happening, but it certainly was Birmingham CC's plan. The article might say that Winterville doesn't exist, but it misses out where that name comes from. I know plenty of children singing strange versions of nursery songs who's bemused parents have questioned it with the school and been told they're not allowed to sing them in their natural form.

illgetyoubutler · 27/12/2009 23:16

i smiled when reading the person responsible for the article is/was from a birmingham mosque.
the only mosque i ever go to in birmingham reguarly speaks out against, and warns muslims of falling into extreamism, excessivness, ignorance and deviation in the religion.