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AIBU?

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Original poster

to be called racist

159 replies

UpsyOne · 26/12/2009 20:52

in a nutshell

I am white with white children, friend of several years is black with black children.

I was looking after friends DS who is under 5 at her house. Her elderly mother lives with her as she is poorly and not well enough to look after children - she was there with me.

Her DS was attention seeking in a cute way, kept pretending to fall over and bump his head to get me to fuss him. When he did it I would call him a little monkey, make monkey noises and encourage him to make monkey noises back to me.

In hindsight I do realise that racists will call black people monkeys as an insult.

But I believe in evolution and therefore believe that we all descend from monkeys. Not only that, I do the whole "you little monkey" thing with my own children.

My friend has been really off with me since as I apparently upset her mum (wasnt aware of it at the time) and her mum actually called me a racist!!

Am I being unreasonable to think the whole thing is just ridiculous or was I somehow out of order?

OP posts:
MissGreatBritain · 26/12/2009 23:15

Maybe the grandmother is a little touchy and maybe a little racist herself, eg maybe she expects white people to be rude and so was looking for it. I think racism, like sexism is about intent. You clearly did not intend to offend anyone, so there's not a problem. Your friend really should know you better than that. maybe the grandmother has made it sound worse than it was, or has got a bit confused? Maybe you could send her an email explaining rather than trying to talk to her if she's being a bit hostile?

onagar · 26/12/2009 23:16

The grandmother might have got the wrong idea, but your friend would have known that these were terms you used for your own children. She would have known you were not racist too.

She either knows and trusts you or she is no loss as a friend.

fairycake123 · 26/12/2009 23:22

Sorry, but I don't agree that racism is "about intent." I swear liberally: when I am among friends all of my sentences are peppered with fuck/fucking/fucker/fucked and pretty much everyone is referred to as a cunt at some point or other. None of it is intended to be offensive - but I understand that there are a lot of people who would be offended by that kind of language, so I just don't use it around them. I don't expect them to just figure out that I don't mean for them to be offended.

Making adjustments to the way you speak is no great hardship. I do not think the OP should feel overly guilty about what has happened but if she wants to salvage her friendship, an aopology is probably necessary, along with an explanation that offence absolutely was not intended.

Nomoretears · 26/12/2009 23:28

I think you should cut your friend some slack here - yes, she should have known you weren't racist but on the other hand her elderly and unwell mother witnessed you doing something quite innocently which was probably done to her and possibly to your friend as a nasty insult.

If I were you, I would go round with a suitable present for her mum to pass on your apologies and explain that you were completely ignorant of the fact that it was insulting. Perhaps even ask her to tell you about her negative experience of what happened as your way of showing that you care about what happened to her and want to educate yourself.

It must be hard for people to understand what it must have been like for people of her generation and indeed her children (your friend). From what you described I can see you meant no harm but to be honest your description gives me (child of immigrant) flash-backs myself so I can only imagine what it did to your friend's mum.

ADingDongDandyChristmasLioness · 26/12/2009 23:31

yy, it's all about who you say something to and whether they find it offensive

Hence the definition of sexual harassment and racial discrimination in the workplace - it's whether the person on the receiving end is offended.

I would have expected the OP's friend to rationalise with her mother though, but as she's a bit off, who knows exactly what her mother told her

BitOfFunWithRudolph · 26/12/2009 23:32

I think you were tactless and insensitive, tbh. I know that you weren't being racist per se, but how can you be so naive as to make monkey noises in front of an elderly black person and not realise that might be construed as offensive? I understand using the phrase "cheeky monkey" is common parlance, but making the noises is a bit above and beyond...I presume you don't follow up other phrases in the same way? Mind boggles at "You little bugger"

madamearcati · 27/12/2009 12:48

I think telling him he was a cheeky monkey was fine -a figure of speech.The pretending to be a monkey I am less comfortable with.

I think teh whole evlutionary argument in your OP is bizarre and makes me think you know you were bang out of order.

thesecondcoming · 27/12/2009 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shockers · 27/12/2009 13:02

"grandmothers are often mental"

A mixed race lady joked with my son's (white) friend that he was a little monkey who had been picking monkey poo off his little furry monkey bum last night because he has holes in the backside of his costume ( they are in a show together). All concerned had a giggle.
I definately think racicsm is about intent although it's wise to think about how comments may be interpreted.... sad but neccessary.

Morloth · 27/12/2009 13:19

I think you should bring it up with your friend as soon as possible and as clearly as possible and tell her that of course you didn't mean any offence and were using an affectionate term that you use for your own children.

Nobody here is being unreasonable but this is a misunderstanding that you can sort out!

ADingDongDandyChristmasLioness · 27/12/2009 13:44

This thread has stayed with me since yesterday - I do find it quite shocking that you made monkey noises. I really do. I think you wouldn't have had a potential problem on your hands if you'd just stopped at saying 'cheeky monkey'.

Morloth · 27/12/2009 13:47

I don't know, we do the "Monkey, ook ook" thing with DS. Another Pratchett thing here. If you were not aware that Monkey was a racist insult (and I could see how someone could be unaware) then you wouldn't make the connection, surely?

ADingDongDandyChristmasLioness · 27/12/2009 13:56

I suppose I find it odd that someone wouldn't be aware that Monkey was a racist insult. But I suspect it depends on where you live and where you were brought up.

The OP said she did realise in hindsight.

I do see how this was a misunderstanding, I just think, as I said earlier, that the OP was tactless.

MollieO · 27/12/2009 13:56

I don't think you were being racist in the slightest. Your friend is probably embarrased and for whatever reason doesn't feel able to explain to her mother that, at least in the UK, the terms little monkey or cheeky monkey are ones of endearment. I also don't think making monkey noises is racist at all.

I'm surprised at your friend's reaction as she would surely know that you aren't racist. Like I said I think she is embarrased because of her mother's reaction and comments. If she doesn't want to talk to you because of that there is really nothing you can do.

DuelingFanjo · 27/12/2009 13:59

I think that the reaction is wrong but perhaps this woman has suffered from racist taunts and so is very sensitive.

"My friend has been really off with me since as I apparently upset her mum (wasnt aware of it at the time) and her mum actually called me a racist!!"

so your friend is the one who told you this?

if so, at least you can talk about it openly. This is good.

Goblinchild · 27/12/2009 14:01

we do the "Monkey, ook ook" thing with DS. Another Pratchett thing here.

Morloth, if you are a Pratchett fan, you will be aware of the Librarian's response to that sort of comment and be grateful that the same response was not offered to the OP.

qwertpoiuy · 27/12/2009 14:01

This brings me back to years ago when a college mate from Zimbabwe showed me photos of his gorgeous son. There was a photo of him climbing onto a chair and I said "isn't he a little monkey", when I noticed my mate went quiet. I immediately realised what he might have taken offence to, and I quickly corrected myself by saying "all toddlers are like monkeys the way they're always climbing, I remember my little brother etc etc", then all was fine.

I never, ever called any child a monkey after that.

You don't sound racist, but I think you should send your friend a text apologising for what happened.

Morloth · 27/12/2009 14:02

Thoughtless/tactless/ignorant has been misunderstood as racist. Easy to sort out I reckon. OP should raise it with her friend, apologise for any offence caused and explain that she did not mean to cause offence but understands now that she did.

Then everyone involved should let it go, if friend can't then that is her lookout, not much OP can do about it really.

Morloth · 27/12/2009 14:04

haha that is why we do it Goblinchild, DS starts yelling "I am not a Monkey I am an APE!".

The kid is weird, I have worked hard at it.

CardyMow · 27/12/2009 15:12

D'you know, all my DC's have been 'little monkeys', as have all my friend's DC's. Even my friend who's youngest DD is mixed race. In fact, Thinking about it (doesn't usually factor into my thought's, the colour of someone's skin, unless they've turned green), I must have about 12 friends whose children are mixed race/ 'black' and they're all 'little monkey's' as well. None of my friends would take offence at what is a term of endearment? And a lot less offensive that saying the DC's are little buggers?? I would not understand the at saying 'little monkey' or making monkey noises either. Maybe my friends and I are all too young ( mid to late 20's) to have experienced monkey as an insult?

BetsyBoop · 27/12/2009 15:29

I don't think it's necessarily an age thing, I'm 43 and didn't realise anyone could ever be offended by calling a child a "cheeky monkey". (I grew up in a very rural area where non-white faces were rare, so maybe that's why, but I was well aware from a young age that, for example, the n-word, w-word & p-word etc should not be used)

Just to add to this, I mentioned this story when chatting to a friend earlier & she said her niece (or rather her Mum as the niece is only 5!) had bought her friend a Peppa Pig book for her birthday, but the friend's Dad was highly offended by it as he's a Muslim - that would never have occured to me either, but I shall think more carefully before buying Peppa Pig presents in the future...

Rindercella · 27/12/2009 16:06

I have been giving this thread further thought too. I have been trying to imagine any (white) friend of mine being alone with DD and my (black) MIL, calling DD a little monkey while making monkey noises at her. Now, my MIL is a very sensible, switched on lady, but I think even she would be taken aback by someone doing this, however innocent the friend's intentions. She would definitely mention it to me, and I would probably be very surprised to find that a friend could be so tactless.

HohohoBumperlicious · 27/12/2009 16:12

I don't think you were being unreasonable in the first place (the making monkey noises sounds weird but it is quite normal behavious around a toddler!) but I do think you are being unreasonable to find her offence ridiculous. It's easy to think something is ridiculous when you have never suffered from that sort of prejudice but you need to see where she is coming from and make allowances.

HerBeatitude · 27/12/2009 16:22

Hmmm. I find monkey noises a bit odd tbh but each to his own.

I think i would find it v. hard work to have a friend who was so sensitive that she thought I was a racist if I weren't. I just couldn't be arsed.

MaggiesManifesto2010 · 27/12/2009 16:23

i call my children monkeys, so to make a point of not calling a black child a monkey seems...... to imply that the insult is closer to the bone. which is nonsense of course. any cute child who's being a monkey is a monkey.

haven't read the whole thread. imo, tiptoeing around somebody who's a different race to yourself, in some permananently heightened state of fear of offending is a type of racist. not malicious racism, but a can'tforgetforamoment we're different racism.

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