to think that my uncle really shouldn't consider himself a Christian

[spicemonster]

My dad has only one sibling, his younger brother. My dad is 75, his brother 7 years younger. Their mother (my nan) is 99. She lives on her own (by choice) and every year she either spends Christmas with my family or my uncle's. Said uncle was supposed to visit her on Xmas Eve as she was spending the day with my family this year. He didn't go, telling her he was 'too busy'. And then he 'forgot' to call her on xmas day. He rang my dad last night about 7pm and said he thought it was too late for him to call her and he'd ring her today instead.

She rang my dad this morning and my uncle still hadn't called her.

AIBU to think it's a bit bloody rich to consider yourself a good Christian (he is a Church warden and 'very involved' in his local church) when you can't even be arsed to contact your elderly mother at Christmas?

Northern - I can see that it's massively offensive but actually this thread has made made my jaw drop. As far as I can teall, you Christians have made excuse after excuse for my uncle's frankly deplorable behaviour and refused to condemn him in any way, purely because I had the audacity to berate him for being a Christian in the title. And I find that really a bit scary. I don't think I need to spell out why do I?

Actually (once again I am working from memory here, am probably an agnostic these days), I think the bible itself has something to say about yelling about faith from street corners (or public proclamations etc). It says not to do it but to get on with things quietly knowing that you yourself are behaving in the appropriate manner.

YABU. I think he is being a good Christian by being in touch with his mother on a regular basis throughout the year. Should he call himself a Christian if he only contacted his mother religiously on Xmas day and Mothers day like some people do?

So you wouldn't mind if someone let you down in that way NothingOfTheSort?

Why isn't anyone answering that question I wonder?

Spice I said I saw your point and I thought he ws unkind.

Or am I not counted as a Christian?

'You christians' in a bollocks statement, we are people who share a few things,nothing else- weare different in sommany other ways,like every other group.

LynetteScavo - defo not same church as our church warden was 60 a couple of months ago (got wine after church is how I remember )

spicemonster - I wasn't making excuses for him, I had in fact said I didn't think it was a very nice thing to do, but just saying I didn't know all the circumstances. As you stated in your later post, you clearly know how he spent every second of the two days then you judge away. Sorry I've lost all interest in this thread after your ridiculous paedophile comment....

Yes I really wouldn't mind if he's very concientious (spelling?) about visiting otherwise.

spicemonster "Why isn't anyone answering that question I wonder?"

Because you confused the question by bringing up Christianity when really it has nothing to do with whether he was selfish/mean or not.

He should have at the very least called his Mum on Christmas (assuming there is no unpleasantness in their relationship). She clearly wanted him to and he said he would, he let her down. The fact that he is/calls himself a Christian has bugger all to do with whether he does so or not.

If you are going to talk about whether people are good Christians (or practitioners of any faith) then it really is a good idea to find out rather a lot about that faith first before judging whether someone is following the tenants of said faith "properly".

You are holding Christians to a higher standard that other people and the implication from this thread is that you are doing so in order to find them lacking.

This thread is so strange! So you people really would not think the uncle abit off? Spice I agree with you totally I would feel exactly the same.

virginmother - apologies for not acknowledging your post.

betsy - I wouldn't have made that paedophile comment if I hadn't sat reading this whole thread realising that the fact that I was criticising for being a Christian rather than being a bit of a shit son meant that so many people were loathe to condemn him. I do find that a bit disturbing that people don't want to criticise him purely on the basis of him being a churchwarden slightly disturbing. Not many people have said 'yes, that's pretty shit behaviour but the fact that he's a churchwarden is irrelevant'. I think it's a bit weird that you're all prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt purely because he's a churchwarden.

I'm a bit confused by that tbh Morloth. Because as an atheist I suppose I do expect people who make a very public commitment to following their church's teachings to actually follow them in their day-to-day life. I'm surprised that any of you think that's odd. We atheists do notice. And yes, I think that if you are going to bang on about it, it's logical that your family are going to expect you to behave in a certain way. If I converted to Judaism I'd expect my family to think it was a bit odd if I was an enthusiastic pork eater. I don't see that this is any different.

Thanks Kerala. I'm beginning to feel like I'm on a different plane here.

What are the teachings of the Church that your uncle attends spicemonster?

"We atheists do notice", that is a very all encompassing comment, do all atheists act in the same manner?

Spicemonster - let me be very plain. I don't think this was particularly shit behaviour by your uncle - Christian or not. It's a bit remiss but hardly critical failure! Your gran was with you all, cared for, looked after. He had his own responsibilities and family at home as well.

I repeat THIS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU! That said, you obviously feel entitled to condemn, that and your highly offensive assumptions about Christians give further weight to my impression that you lack judgement generally.

Spicemonster, you're assuming that everyone makes a very public commitment, many make private commitments because they don't believe it to be anybody elses business.

It has nothing to do with me? This is my grandmother northern. So the fact that she is really upset actually does have something to do with me. Or am I not allowed to care about others' distress in your version of Christianity?

He attends some random CofE church Morloth. And I'm not assuming anything about the rest of you AgentZZ - I just think that if you set yourself up as some kind of agent of the church, you should try and live by its values.

I don't especially like my nan. She's a bit grumpy. But you know, I cut her a fair bit of slack because she's nearly 100, she's deaf, she's blind and her life is pretty shit. And so having a visit from one of her two sons is a massive fucking deal to her. Especially at Christmas. So it is utterly, utterly shit to not deliver on that. I wouldn't dream of not turning up to visit her when I said I would unless I was in hospital.

So you don't know exactly how his church teaches that he should behave?

The last two church services I have been too have been wildly different. I went to a wedding in Surrey Hills in Sydney at a Uniting Church (with my extremely gay and camp nephew) and after that we were in Rome with some Catholic friends and attended an extremely formal and high church mass - the difference in those flavours of Christianity is vast.

Does he talk often about how important family is and how he always puts them ahead of other people?

He is extremely camp, I don't know if someone can be extremely gay.

LOL at your extremely gay nephew

No I don't know about his church. But I know where he lives and I have a pretty good idea of what it's likes - a run of the mill CofE Home Counties church. And I can't imagine that giving your elderly infirm brother entire responsibility for your ancient mother is okay behaviour.

But again, that's where I've maybe gone wrong with all of this. To be honest, in a lot of ways, it would have been massively easier if we'd been able to write him off as the hapless/feckless son. The fact that he is such a committed churchgoer means that I expect him to take on half of all the responsibilities of looking after my grandmother alongside my dad rather than being a bit crap. I have always thought that wasn't an unreasonable expectation but clearly it is, judging from most of the posts on this thread.

All I can say is that I hope you lot are never old ladies sitting at home alone, hoping for your children to give a shit.

Your relationship with your nan is your business. The relationship your uncle has with his mother is none of your business.

Why don't you try remembering that he has known her for 68 years and maybe can manage his relationship with her without recourse to what you think is required. How exactly was he supposed to speak to her on the phone anyway if she's deaf? Also you don't know do you what he did on Christmas Eve instead of visting her?

I'm curious really as to why you have so much compassion for your nan and your dad but bugger all for your uncle?

As we're clearly doing the patronising northernwhatever, here you go in spades:

• normally, my uncle's relationship is none of my business, I concur. When it fucks up my Christmas, then, yes, actually, is it my business

• clearly you know nothing about deaf people: they can talk on the telephone you know with hearing aids and special settings. Modern technology is quite remarkable

• this really isn't about how much compassion I have for any of them, just that, barring pestilence or plague, I cannot think of a single decent reason for not contacting your mother over Christmas. Can you? Please share

Oh give the proxy martyr stuff a rest. There was absolutely no need for this to mess up your Christmas. That's just self indulgent.

You said 'he visits her every other week and calls in the weeks he doesn't visit normally. '. You also said 'She lives on her own (by choice) and every year she either spends Christmas with my family or my uncle's'. None of that sounds like the act of somebody who is 'giving your elderly infirm brother entire responsibility for your ancient mother' You don't know that he hasn't contacted her today do you? And actually yes I do think forgetting to make a phone call during a busy family day with small, bewitching grandchildren about, is a good reason.

You really loathe him don't you. What a good job he has children of his own to care for him in his own old age because I dread to think how his niece would respond....

Spicemonster - setting himself up as an agent of the church, or just trying to help other people out as a church warden? It just depends on how you view the bloke.

Being a Mum is a good analogy. There are people constantly making judgements about you and how you don't live up to this unobtainaable ideal. But when it comes down to brass tacks, everyone is just trying to do the best they can.

So shoot me down in flames because I sometimes give my DD a frootshoot, that doesn't make me a bad mother. The person making the judgement that I'm a bad mother for doing that is probably giving their DD a Greggs sausage roll!

Ahh, a good old festive ding-dong.

Actually, sounds like he was being very Christian:

After all, Jesus said: "He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 12:51-53)

and

"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

I worry about whether anyone's going to bother about him in his old age actually. And yes, you're right, his niece is going to let him rot. As will my sisters. But whether his only child will think he's worth paying any attention to I've got no idea. Seriously, why would she? He's made it pretty clear that once you're really old and can't give anything practically or financially, you are not worthy of even a phone call.

If he had just ignored her entirely, actually that would have been okay. Not fine obviously, because it is obviously massively hurtful to be ignored by your son at Christmas, but acceptable. It was the promising and not delivering that really pissed me off. And still, none of you Christians have answered that one ...

You can have another atheist agreeing with you Spicemonster - I think his behaviour is shit. And would also be shit if you wasn't an Christian.

But I do get your reference to that actually - he is an active church going making public his faith type of Christian who I am sure will not be telling his fellow church wardens nor his vicar or indeed the WI that he quite frankly couldn't be arsed going to she his mother (1) at Christmas (a fairly important time for the CoE I believe and (2) after he had promised to do so twice.