Am I being unreasonable to think that good care with one carer at home is better than good care at a nursery?

[gotogirl]

I haven't namechanged, because I am not ashamed of asking this. It is a genuine question.

Following the thread from the mum who wanted appreciation of her parenting skills for having a good-sleeper / well-behaved 3 year old - i know it is contrary to MN netiquette to start a thread re a thread, but this is a related topic, not the same one.

Anyway, that mum suggested if it is all down to luck, she may as well pop her DD into nursery and feed her fruit shoots....cos being lucky, this "adverse" things would not affect the outcome. So, she clearly put "nursery" in the adverse category.

A few people picked her up on this and said nursery is not evil etc.

[Bear with me, this is long, I know]

My question:

does anybody genuinely feel that nursery is as good as or better than being cared for by single carer in home environment?

My thoughts: that the OP from other post is eriously misguided in thinking nursery = adverse environment. But, but....

I struggle to think that nursery is going to be better than one-to-one care at home unless home carer is ill / depressed / incapable etc.

Let's get to the point:

Am I being unreasonable to think that good care with one carer at home is better than good care at a nursery?

BTW, my kids are not cared for one-to-one at hom; I work and this is not possible. but i found what I fgeel is next best thing. I myself do not think it is superior care to what they would get if I were able to become SAHM. But economic reality dictates work for me.

But daftpunk, not all mothers (or parents even) provide good 1:1 care. Not all families with one SAHP are able to provoide 1:1 care if there are other dcs at home.

It is fine to quote research. But whether it applies in any one case is moot because it is based on so many assumptions which don't necessarily apply.

How about research that says that children who have attended nursery do better on cognitive tests? I quite like that one.

There is also good research that says that children from deprived homes do better with nursery attendance.

It boils down to the facts, the facts.

nancy66: "But to try and justify leaving a baby when it's just days old because that baby will understand that 'mummy and daddy have enough money' is daft."

Is that what Xenia said? That a baby will rationalise its care arrangements because it understands the financial rewards that brings?

Methinks you are putting words in Xenia's mouth. And getting worked up for nothing.

Ha ha. Ds2(1) gets much better care at nursery than he does with me. hand painting, nursery rhymes, music play, play-doh(vile stuff), eats mackarel, cous cous, chicken curry. care is 1-3. he has 2 little mates, the same boys with him, each tues and wed. the rest of the week he has to put up with just me, rushing and shouting to ds1(5) to get a move on, for the school run, and a home made spag bol, if he's lucky.
2 days of fun at nursery. then the rest of the week with mum. i know what sounds best to me. i choose nursery deliberatly over a cm.

Xenia wouldn't say that.

I never said that. My point was about bonding. Let a baby get used to mummy 24./7 and then rent its life asunder at 7 months or 18 months when mummy goes back to work and you make things hard for it. Ensure ab initio that it has a secure routine where every day for vritualyl the whole of its life it has the certainty and stability of mummy and daddy at work in the day and back in the evening and the same people there and that's better psychologicalyl for it.

Love is infinite. I don't love my 5 children less because there are 5 of them. Similarly they can love a mother and a father.

However as they get older they do appreciate rich mothers - I'm sorry but they do however much you've brought them up to a life of poverty chastity and obedience or whatever your religious values are. I don't con myself that even the 20 somethings are coming skiing next week because I'm th ebest mother on the planet. If I were offering a wet weekend in a caravan in Wales in Decemeber I suspect they might be elsewhere. Don't underestimate cupboard love as children get older but my important point is probably completely consistent with the view of any parent who thinks bonding with a baby is good. I was supporting it and saying all the studies show a happy parent and a baby with a routine that is consistent with loving adults is the best thing.

Blueshoes - I'm not worked up at all. Just contributing.

yes, that's exactly how the first paragraph of Xenia's post reads to me 'the child has the comfort and security of knowing' and then she lists the benefits.

lol, Xenia, on teenagers and cupboard love!

nancy66, there is no way I could read Xenia's post the way you have. And I have gone back to it. Xenia has also clarified in any case.

Depends on the nursery and the mum. But if all things are equal, good mum and good nursery, they are better off at home I reckon.

I mean, bad home vs good nursery you'd choose the nursery, and bad nursery vs good home, you'd choose the home. But good nursery vs good home, I'd choose the home.

Gawd you've all be quoting research. Did someone say bleedin' obvious as well? I go with that.

blueshoes;

Of course there will be exceptions.
A child who spends his day being totally ignored or shouted at, will be better off at a nursery, but generally speaking children are better off at home with a parent. ( I am talking about under 3's here)
Plus I don't buy into all this " Nursery gives my child confidence"..?

How much confidence does a 2yr old need..?

And anyway, confidence is gained from feeling secure and loved, and that feeling is best nutured in the home by parents.

I think children at nursey learn to "cope" completely different to having confidence.

I am a good mum. still think ds is better off fine at nursery.

I don't know about exceptions, daftpunk.

What is good parenting or care is so specific to the parents and the child and the environment that it is far from black and white that 24/7 at home is better than time in a nursery.

I have the capacity to be a superb parent but not if I had to do it 24/7 in a marking time way. My dh is the same.

For our family, the best arrangement is a combination of home care and nursery care. I am sure your dcs are confident as are mine.

daftpunk, I am not sure why you raise the issue about nursery children and confidence? Where did that come from.

This makes a damn miserable read for mums who have to work . What a joy it will be going to work tomorrow.

Why on earth I am listening to it (and still reading it) I dont know. I know what works best overall for our family and I have read, and taught, the vast majority of the good research evidence. Why the hell I am now worrying about attachment disorder and unruly violent children who will never make friends (even though they already have) or form meaningful relationships I dont know. My children are happy and content certainly not miserable little things fighting for attention at nursery.

I would love to be able to stay home. I mean that financially and in the sense that I would love not to actually like my job and colleagues. I would love to be totally fulfilled at home. However I have to work and it is actually part of my identity.

So there you go - happy now? You are all doing the right things staying at home. How lucky that you are able to do that. I admit defeat. The thing people seem to forget about these threads is that insults and throwing pseudo psychology at people hurts real people.

peppa, don't fret. I chose to work.

I am not making working mothers feel miserable. I have about 100 reasons why it is better for children if mother's work so listen only unto me......

Work is very important too and this country would hugely lose out without its female surgeons, cabinet ministers, bankers and even its female cleaners.

Anyway the thread was about nurseries. I prefer a nanny at home for the reasons on my various posts above but as long as the child is loved and has stability they tend to do well. There are plenty of stay at home mothers and fatehrs who aren't happy and don't relate and interact much to the children too.

I don't think anyone is lucky if they can stay at home. Any of us could as we can claim benefits in the UK and do it. Thus every man and women who works and "deserts" their child in the UK is doing it by choice and I think most of them are making the right choice.

Then nursery studies vary and lots of studies simply refelect whoever paid for them or the spin put on them by the PR people so I wouldn't be too concerned about most of those. Even the one which said nursery children had higher levels of the stress hormone cortisol does not actually say that's a bad thing. Cortisol could be to their advantage.

I know - just hormonal (pregnant), not enjoying work right now and just should not have read or contributed to this thread. Working mums are always going to be in the minority on mumsnet so the view will always be polarised. In work (where everyones child is in nursery etc) it is seen as normal. In fact I work in a department with experts on young children's development and well being and their children are in nursery so there we go!

peppa, the greatest luxury is to follow our choice, whether it be to SAHM, WOHM or its variations. All too often, circumstances force us into one or the other option which does not accord with our desires.

It is not clear (I could be thick) from your post whether you want to work or not.

Do you have any reason to believe that your dcs are unhappy in childcare?

peppa, sorry you are having a hard time at work. I am not surprised that experts on childcare use nurseries. I can only assume they are satisfied with the care and don't see any deleterious effects on their dcs. You are in good company.

The most outrageous comments on nurseries stem from people who don't use them and know the least. For those with bad experiences, it is unfortunate but I won't tar all nurseries with the same brush as I know lots of people with the opposite experience.

FWIW, the world is a richer place for women like you and your colleagues who not only bring up children but also give your skills for the benefit of others as professionals and employees. Working to improve the lives of children other than their own, even.

Blueshoes - that is the thing. My DC's are perfectly happy in day care. DS is a real nursery child and loves it. DD is very happy there - always full of smiles and cuddles. Doesnt really thrive off it in the same way DS does but very comfortable and happy there.

I also really enjoy my job, struggled being at home. I have flexibility with my hours. I am an academic in child research - particularly developmental health psychology so I know the true balance of the research.

So why on earth am I getting upset at this thread

I think its the implicit / explicit assumption that my children are deeply unhappy / traumatised / destined for a life of crime, that the nursery staff hate them and do not pay them any attention and all of this equates to me being a bad mother who shouldnt have bothered having children because I couldnt be with them 24/ 7.

This thread isnt really about what it was meant to be any more is it.

Your life and dcs' lives sound perfect, Peppa. It is a vulnerable time for you.

Yes - if a raft of professors and senior academics, some of who have been involved directly in some of these studies, are still happy to put their children in childcare then it cant be that bad can it.

I also agree on the opinions formed without having any experience angle. Unfortunately the view of nurseries that is often presented is the negative one. When I pick mine up DD is usually on a key workers / students lap grinning from ear to ear. They will quite often remark how 'she has given lots of hugs and kisses today' etc.

It is natural for everyone to defend their choices. I hope that most people on this thread have been able to make the decision that is right for them and their family.

Thank you. They are happy and I should know that