Am I being unreasonable to think that good care with one carer at home is better than good care at a nursery?

[gotogirl]

I haven't namechanged, because I am not ashamed of asking this. It is a genuine question.

Following the thread from the mum who wanted appreciation of her parenting skills for having a good-sleeper / well-behaved 3 year old - i know it is contrary to MN netiquette to start a thread re a thread, but this is a related topic, not the same one.

Anyway, that mum suggested if it is all down to luck, she may as well pop her DD into nursery and feed her fruit shoots....cos being lucky, this "adverse" things would not affect the outcome. So, she clearly put "nursery" in the adverse category.

A few people picked her up on this and said nursery is not evil etc.

[Bear with me, this is long, I know]

My question:

does anybody genuinely feel that nursery is as good as or better than being cared for by single carer in home environment?

My thoughts: that the OP from other post is eriously misguided in thinking nursery = adverse environment. But, but....

I struggle to think that nursery is going to be better than one-to-one care at home unless home carer is ill / depressed / incapable etc.

Let's get to the point:

Am I being unreasonable to think that good care with one carer at home is better than good care at a nursery?

BTW, my kids are not cared for one-to-one at hom; I work and this is not possible. but i found what I fgeel is next best thing. I myself do not think it is superior care to what they would get if I were able to become SAHM. But economic reality dictates work for me.

no Leonie what suits your family may not suit another

You sound envious too

I am fine with government subsidising parents to be at home, so long as it is given in the form of tax deductions, credits, rebates. In other words, linked to at least one tax payer/earner in the household. Not in the form of pure benefits, because that is a slippery slope.

Widow, are you me?

you misunderstand me pisces...one on one care is best. that is the consensus. the govt needs to define policy in order to enable parents to either be at home with their children and to regulate and promote excellence in one on one childcare, decrease massively minimum ratios for daycare with under 2s. they are not doing that.

of course an unhappy mother at home is no good for the children. that is not the only choice. there is sometimes a father, and many fathers would actually like to be at home looking after the children. sometimes another relative. sometimes paid for one on one childcare. both parents taking on some of the care part time. loads of options. none of them currently supported adequately by government policy. the guidelines on flexible working and maternity/paternity are woefully inadequate. pay for childcarers likewise. these things need to change.

Blueshoes - reading your posts I started to wonder...

The 'next best thing' is often MORE than OK, though. We are geared up to finicky-ise over every possible thing. A child in a good nursery with an excellent home life is hardly going to suffer, IMO. Nursery isn't responsible for eating / sleeping habits...I think that I am almost unwilling to enter the debate because it creates agnonising where none is needed...comepetition over the 'best' parenting, pressure on woemn, and all when the babies themselves are as happy as larry and doing well. If the 'next best thing' is still much better than 'ok', why why why would anyone agonise?

(I am not talking about the agonising felt by parents who really want to be sahm but cannot for financial situation - that's about being a sahm per se)

Chaotic / negligent parenting in dysfucntional households by out of control adults is the cause of badly brought up, unhappy, insecure children, not careful childcare from loving parents.

well said blu

blu, point taken. but this debate is about all thigns being equal. and in that case one on one care is, as leonid points out by far the best option. babies and young children need a consistent caregiver.

and children can seem 'fine' when in fact they are developing attachment disorders that will be with them throughout their lives.

avoidant insecure attachment is exactly that: seeming not to need emotional sustenance...being 'fine'..and as an aside, a generation of early boarders runs our nation, most of them are fine examples of this and the consequences are macro rather than micro.

"Chaotic / negligent parenting in dysfucntional households by out of control adults is the cause of badly brought up, unhappy, insecure children."

Chaotic parenting... etc is one cause of parenting failure and unhappy children. Hyper-controlling, unaffectionate parenting is also a cause of unhappy children. With just as pernicious consequences as chaotic parenting.

LeoniedElf - a nursery with high staff rotation is crap. No doubt about that. That's why it's so important to research your childcare options and look at a number of nurseries before making a decision.

My daughter's nursery operates a keyperson scheme and there haven't been any staff changes since my first enquiry about a place for my child about 11 months ago. (she started there 8 months later). In fact, the first swtaff change will be one of the girls going on maternity leave in a few weeks. That's hardly disruptive.

yes leonid. the links that are coming in thick and fast now between attachment theory and neuroscience are extremely exciting, and disturbing from the pov of the direction that early years care in western societies is going.

Thank you, blu, for bringing much needed perspective into the debate.

Good enough, not perfect (if there is such a thing) parenting, is sufficient. That is the level that the government should support.

Not the 'best' option, but options that give a good enough result for a family whilst preserving the work ethic. So better quality and choice of childcare, better paternity/maternity leave, tax deductions for working parent(s) ... but not benefits to parents to stay at home because that just incentivises childbearing, without any comcomittant responsibility to be a good parent.

luna, FWIW, I agree with you

maybe you haven't been on MN long, but you will soon find out that if you think babies and toddlers do best at home cared for by their mums or dads, it won't be long until a FT working mum with a kid in nursery 50 hours a week comes along to patronise you and tell you to "run along".

Although why you would want to take advice on childrearing from a parent who hardly see's their own child is beyond me.

Still doesn't stop them telling you what to do

Oh FFS being at a nursery while your parent works does not lead to attachment disorder.

What a pig-ignorant statement to make. Please, for god's sake, research what you're talking about before terminology that you don't understand spews out of your mouth. It's embarrassing.

Elf, nursery attendance causing attachment disorders? Even good nurseries. Wow. How did we get here.

Perhaps you should see the sort of chaotic, deprived, abusive environment that DO cause attachment disorders before you make such implications.

Talk about a sense of perspective.

spicemonster not having one person that cares for you consistently leads to attachment disorder. therefore, one on one care in the main is better for babies and very small children than nursery care. i can assure you that I know very well what i'm talking about in this respect. please read my posts and don't extrapolate extreme statements from them.

spicemonster, in elf's case, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing ...

you lot who are WOHM-bashing - think for one moment please:

Some folks have to work to keep their families' heads above the water

how do you think that they are going to feel reading your comments - very undermining

And also where is the debate on fathers being WOHPs? Why critiscise only women who work

blueshoes, nursery environments are LESS CONDUCIVE to the formation of good attachment relationships. babies do not benefit from being surrounded by other babies. they need one consistent carer. that doesn't mean that they can't get that ever in a nursery. but it is probably rare.

fathers should bear at least as much of the child caring burden not to say that angst that accompanies it.

it is possible (very possible) to WOTH and have your children cared for one on one. a good childminder, relative, nanny or your partner will all meet this need.

I am certainly NOT bashing woth. at all.