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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

OI! Homophobes! Over here!

682 replies

ooojimaflip · 10/12/2009 17:23

I'm genuinly interested in why you object to homosexuality, and everytime I ask on the other thread it gets lost in the general hubbub.

So - name change if you want, but please tell me what your objections are?

If it's because it's not natural or against biology, please expand your answer to include why you care about that.

Show your working for extra credit.

n.b. Don't bother if it's a religous justification, you'll need to find someone who believes in that kind of stuff to debate with as I'll just dismiss that out of hand. If you are a homopohbic religous person with a secular objection then please go ahead.

OP posts:
daftpunk · 11/12/2009 22:07

BM3...

don't leave....

ijustwanttoaskaquestion · 11/12/2009 22:14

I dont know who bigmomma3 is.

I think you are perfectly entitled to express your opinions, even if they are unpalatable. Bit you just refuse to take on board anything that people have said to you.

Its like you said to DP, why would a lesbian come on this thread and not expect to be insulted.

So, if you start an inflammatory thread or post inflammatory posts, expect to get flamed!!

Its great that you have your own mind, but you should maybe use it think that what you post is extremely hurtful and you are going to get jumped on for it - you knew that when you started the thread (the other thread) so dont come the hard done by, oh, you are all up your own arses because people disagree with you.

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 11/12/2009 22:22

Flaming - would you mind answering my question before you go?

OP posts:
daftpunk · 11/12/2009 22:23

BM3

don't think i've ever spoken to you before.... but i backed you all the way on your thread, and i backed Darcy1...

it's not for me to say if you have been offensive...(always a matter of opinion isn't it)...the liberals sure aren't shy with the insults are they...?

i think MN is big enough for everyone, and it's good to have threads like this...we're all adults...we should be able to chat about things like this without 4 of us leaving...

don't leave...

onebatmother · 11/12/2009 22:26

Can I just add to what onagar recently said about classical civilisations: it's widely believed that all free men in Ancient Rome engaged in anal and oral sex with other men/boys.

The issue was not where you put it, but into whose where you put it. In other words, it was okay - 'good form' as it were - to penetrate your inferior in social standing and/or age, but shameful to be penetrated by anyone of equal or higher standing. It was entirely about degrees of male power, and class.

So in that instance, 'legitimate' arousal was hedged around with strictures - which more or less insisted upon men engaging in anal sex. The same kind of strictures existed until recently against men engaging in anal sex.

It's all constructed, innit?

onebatmother · 11/12/2009 22:27

I bet someone freakin' said that on page 2 didn't they? sorry.

onebatmother · 11/12/2009 22:28

In fact I think if I were to try and talk about nature, I would say that desire is the primary force, and nature finds a cunning way of hopping on the back of one form of desire to engineer procreation.

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 11/12/2009 22:29

Sugarberry - you posted and ran last night - could you explain your objections to homosexuality this time?

OP posts:
TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 11/12/2009 22:36

Well, pleased to 'meet' you, bigmomma3, glad you felt able to, er, come out.

Hopefully DP will testify that even if you post as... (searching for tactful phrasing...) someone who has Ishoos with people who have chosen to be born with a different ethnic origin or sexual orientation from yourself, your opinions will still be given a fair hearing on other areas of the site. Or, indeed, in any thread on which your posts are well-argued and backed up with facts.

onebatmother · 11/12/2009 22:40

Also - now my dander is up -

I'm interested as to why "I'm entitled to this opinion, it's my right to prevent my children from seeing homosexuality,you can't tell me what to think!" is considered to be an answer to charges of being Wrong. Or of Being Hate-filled.

We KNOW it's your right (that's because we live in a liberal democracy) but that doesn't mean you are right.

see that right/right thing I did?

daftpunk · 11/12/2009 22:43

BM3;

theheathenofsuburbia is right...even someone who posts like me can get along ok on MN

standandeliver · 11/12/2009 22:48

"I don't want to continue conversing with people who are up their own arses and believe they and only they are right, and demonise people who have their own minds and don't follow the popular views."

But do you understand that some of us see attitudes like yours as actively harmful to individual gay people? I feel exactly the same about homophobia as I do about racism: it shouldn't go unchallenged because when it takes hold and becomes prevalent in society, it eventually manifests itself in cruelty, injustice and violence.

I feel very strongly about this issue. I used to teach in a rough boys secondary (only managed a term before fleeing into the post-sixteen sector), and was really distressed at the constant verbal and physical abuse directed at boys who were perceived to be gay. There were two boys in particular who used to spend every break sitting on a desk outside the staffroom. They couldn't go into the playground because they'd get beaten up by the other boys who constantly taunted them with shouts of 'fucking gay twat', inside the classroom and outside. They would also stay on after school for half an hour every day until all the other kids had gone home - they were too scared to leave with the rest of the boys because they got punched and abused when they had to walk in a crowd.

I felt traumatised even witnessing how these kids were persecuted. And they got sod-all support from the staff. When raised it with one of the other teachers she turned around and said 'well they ask for it don't they? Why do they have to draw people's attention to themselves by being camp?' Before I left I quietly went to one of the boys and suggested he see a solicitor to investigate suing the school for lack of protection against bullying. Told him I'd be a witness.

I'd like to see schools treat homophobia in the same way as they do racism: to make it clear that it's completely unacceptable to express homophobic views publicly, in the way that it's socially unacceptable now to make racist comments. There will be children in *every school who will have same-sex relationships when they grow up. There will be children just moving into puberty at 9 and 10 who will be starting to be aware of their individual developing sexuality, and these children have a right not to be made to feel bad about themselves by adults in the grip of an irrational prejudice.

onebatmother · 11/12/2009 22:51

yes

Sugarberry · 11/12/2009 22:53

No i didn't run. Had important things to take care of. The only reason i'm watching the thread is to see if i can find justifications for homosexuality and why they tend to bully we( whom you call homophobes) that do not approve of them.

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 11/12/2009 22:55

Fair enough Sugarberry, we're all fitting this in around one of these 'life' things we're all meant to have. But this is MY thread, so would you mind spelling out your objections to homosexuality?

OP posts:
Kaloki · 11/12/2009 22:58

Sugarberry > I think standanddeliver sums it up perfectly

standandeliver · 11/12/2009 22:58

"to see if i can find justifications for homosexuality"

You can't 'justify' homosexuality any more than you can 'justify' heterosexuality. It just is and always has been part of hugely varied and complex landscape of human relationships.

"why they tend to bully we( whom you call homophobes) that do not approve of them"

Don't worry - it's not just homophobes that get 'bullied' on mumsnet. Racist and sexist people also come under the same sort of pressure here.

daftpunk · 11/12/2009 23:04

hugely varied and complex landscape of human relationships...

hetrosexuals and homosexuals...

that's 2 types

2 doesn't = hugely varied and complex...

Kaloki · 11/12/2009 23:05

"hetrosexuals and homosexuals..."

bi-sexuals, those who prefer transexuals.. etc etc.

daftpunk · 11/12/2009 23:07

i don't even know what a transexual is...

Kaloki · 11/12/2009 23:11

Probably for the best DP

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 11/12/2009 23:12

dp - hetrosexuals who are now homosexual, homosexuals who are now hetreosexual, people into S&M, all that poo and piss stuff, plushies etc. and that's just the sex stuff.

Then there's polyamory, polyandry, whatever both together is, promiscuity, monogomy, serial monogamy and celibacy.

More than two anyway.

OP posts:
ijustwanttoaskaquestion · 11/12/2009 23:13

DP "i dont even know what a transexual is" LMAO!!! you take the you really do you are BAD!!

Quattrocento · 11/12/2009 23:13

ROFL at dp

In a moment of curiosity, I tried googling 'ladyboy'. I just wanted to know if they started out as boys and had stuff done to them or if they started out as ladies and had different stuff done to them.

Google really didn't help me much with that, although there were about a billion references.

as you were>

ijustwanttoaskaquestion · 11/12/2009 23:13

whats a plushie????