Roasting little children in shopping centres.

[Ninks]

AIBU to think that if you are going to drive in a heated car to a heated shopping centre then you should not dress your toddler or baby for sub-zero temperatures and then stay there for three hours?

I went into town with my sister, my DS and her toddler the other day. I'm in the S.E and it's very mild for November so I had on a T-shirt and light jacket as did my son as we were going to be inside. My sister was wearing a light top and no jacket as she is a bit big but my DN was dressed in tights, fluffy boots, a vest, fleecy top and a huge padded coat, plus a filthy but warm lacy pushchair insert.

At one point I asked my sister if she wanted to unbutton DN's coat as she was pouring with sweat, hair sticking to her and scarlet-faced but she just laughed and said she couldn't be bothered.

I have been known to "lose" hats, hats FFS, worn my sister's children now and again in hot shopping centres. Why does she do it? My toddler has warm clothes and boots for, er - walking. In the cold and wet and snow when he is ten minutes from home.

But she isn't the only one who does this is she? I am always seeing babies swaddled under layers of blankets that you'd use for freezing outside temperatures in the fecking heated mall and judging by the swathes of bags hanging from the pushchair they haven't only been there for a few minutes.

Roaring most of them are, obviously hot and bored and very uncomfortable. If any of my DC were in that sort of state I'd be racing home, but no, the poor children are relentlessly trundled "raaaan taaaaaan"

i can't help but picture kids on a rotisserie becuase of the thread title

I saw a young woman in the bank with a baby of around 10 months and and toddler of about 18/20 months in the hot summer months and the kiddies had thick, heavy weight dungarees on, one of the lo's was very clammy looking and an odd colour and very whingy. They had a thick fleece blanket over them in the buggy too.

I was in two minds, but decided to speak to the mum and she clearly didn't have a clue in her cotton top and cropped trousers.

I don't have a car & did put my boys in cosy toes & snowsuits - when needed like the half an hour walk home in dark after nursery in December - having also done first aid I was fanatic re removing & unzipping in doors & on buses- but continue to be concerned re others - tendency locally where many others don't have cars, to keep the raincover on all the time and the hoods of car seats down.

When we are going to be in and out of the hot shops/cold outside, I just put indoor coats on and then blanket(s) on top when we are outside if needed. That way, I can easily take them off without disturbing the children too much.

My DDs do have snowsuits but that is for when we are outside in the cold for much longer - like and outdoor day out or if DD2 won't settle, occasionally she sleeps in the garden for some fresh air.

I am always moaning to DH as he doesn't always remember to take blankets off.

Does anybody feel the same way about maternity wards? After DS was born (summer) we were both sweltering on the ward! I had him in a short sleeved sleep suit and added / removed blankets as I felt necessary (I had no covers on my bed as I was too hot to sleep).

All the other babies were in full thick sleep suits / hats / swaddled. My midwife said that it was refreshing to see DS in less clothes and that maternity wards were far too hot

HV said that the general rule is to dress a small baby in "one more layer than would be comfortable for yourself" - would you agree?

I always unzip DS' coat and take off his hat. Since we live in Minnesota it's important that we bring them since you can get frostbite walking from the mall to the car, but it's always boiling inside. Poor little Ninks' DN!

I always see kids having tantrums in shopping centers and I wonder if it's because they're so hot and irritable.

YANBU. I'm obsessive very careful about ds overheating and like other posters have said he's probably underdressed rather than over. Like JennyPenny I tend to tuck him in his pushchair with a blanket and then just remove it when indoors.

BrandonsMummy- yes!! I remember putting ds in 2 layers- sleepsuit and 1 blanket- as it was boiling in there (I only wore anything at all for the sake of discretion!) and then a miwife came along, tutted and put a hat and 3 blankets on him!

Yes, Brandonsmummy, that's what I always do.

right now we are both in our jammies. I am in a sleeveless top and sleep pants. DS, 5 months, is in long sleeve onesie, sleep pants and socks. And I think I am going to take his socks off because the back of his neck feels a bit sweaty.

It is currently 22 C in our lounge.

When my DD was a baby, I always worried that she'd be hot or cold, so I always dressed exactly the same. If she wore a babygro and cardi, I'd wear a long sleeved tshirt, leggings and a cardi. If she wore a cotton dress, I'd wear a cotton dress. If she wore corduroy trousers and a jumper, I'd wear... but you get the idea.

I don't think I looked particularly odd, and if I got hot enough to want to take off my cardi, I'd take hers off, too. Same for cold.

I got clucks from the nutters who wanted her to be completely covered, no matter what the temperature, but she was always a very alert, smiley little poppet, so it was hard for them to argue when I said she was fine (I also continually felt her neck for temperature - I think I was a little obsessed by this!).

I wonder if keeping little ones hot was a cheap way to make them sleepy and get on with work/shopping way back when?

Over-wrapped babies is a pet hate of mine. And your sister sounds like hard work at the best Ninks. I remember your other thread about her creepy boyfriend, she sounds like someone who always puts herself first. Sad really. You on the other hand sound like a loving aunt.

And at her kicking you in the stomach and you needing surgery.

A baby died in our local shopping centre a few years ago from overheating so definitely YANBU.

MIL is always on at me for not wrapping dd2 up more- she won't have it that when she's too hot she itches more and her excema gets worse.

Feel the benefit haven';t heard that since I was at school!

Totally right, Ninks. You see this on the bus too. Buses this time of year have their heating on but you see these poor little babies and toddlers bundled up like eskimos. For tiny babies surely there's a risk of SIDS doing this.

YANBU

dd4 has many different coats and fleeces depending on the weather and what we will be doing.

for the morning school run she is in her furry cover-all coat, as its chilly first thing.

but if she is in a sling, then she will wear a fleecey jumper over her normal clothes, the wrap sling, and if i feeel we need it, my fleece babywearing coat over the top.

i tend to go for layers so can adjust as needed.

People in Morocco wrap their babies up to a ridiculous degree. My poor DNephew when he was only 2 weeks old got a cold, he was wrappen in two vests, babygrow, jumper, booties, gloves and a hat (sometimes two) and at one point was stuffed under two folded double massive fleece blankets. I didn't know how dangerous that was at the time so I didn't do anything, but even if I had tried, they would not have believed me. In their world hot babies = healthy and cool babies = certain illness. I had to be very vigilant round my DS and got a lot of tuts for my neglect. I'd be interested to know the statistics for cot dealth there but I doubt the research exists.

Oh yeh - YANBU

We were given a lot of grief by both our families for allegedly keeping our daughter not warm enough, we actually kept to the HV recommendations and she was happy.

One of my cousins actually said that her (independent woo-prone) midwife said that "babies are used to a 37 C ambient temperature for nine months, so they need to be kept that warm until they've coped with the shock of transition to the world. Or something.

I politely kept my opinions to myself, and kept doing it like we did anyway.

Oh, and I hate shopping centres, so my daughter is not at risk of overheating in them either...

Goodness yes, maternity wards are horrendous! Ds was born in August 98 and it was sweltering. I was so uncomfortable within half hour bof being transfered to the ward that I said I was going home...they quickly put me in a side room with a fan and opening windows! I had Ds in just a nappy and vest; anything else would've been abusive!

at those stats on cot death, can anyone find a link that backs them up? I see overwrapped babies all the time.

I've always wondered if the levels used to be high purely because of overheating, which would be a higher risk for tummy sleepers. My parents and PIL insisted on having their houses heated to unbelievable levels whenever DD visited as a tiny baby. I wound up arguing with them, because it was so absurd that she was clammy and hot and everybody was sweating and uncomfortable. They did not have central heating when we were babies and could not seem to grasp that hotter was not necessarily better.

I can't abide indoor shopping centres - they give me a headache after half an hour with no fresh air.

I think there is evidence of it with maternity wards though - babies need to be kept very warm for the first day or so to give them time to adjust. DD2 was born outside and got cold very quickly and needed oxygen when the ambulance came despite the fact that it wasn't a cold day (late March).

I got shouted at in the street (in East Dulwich just in case the horrid witch is reading) by a mad interfering woman when DD was a couple of weeks old, and out in her pram wrapped in babygro and snuggly pram duvet-type thing (I don't know what they are called, sorry!)... she just stared at dd and barked 'COLD' at me in a mentalist voice. DD was not cold!
I was so stunned and freaked I just stood there gaping, but for 3 years I have wanted to tell her to fuck off, so am just ranting on this thread. Closure really!
OP - YANBU.

i know this sounds like an obvious thing, and maybe all MNers know all abou tcorrect body temperature etc, but

1. can we stop being mean about Ninks and saying she hates her sister because she commented on her size (which was releveant to the OP because it showed what she felt necessary to wear to the shops)

2. i have to say, that, as a not-yet-mum (but fingers crossed one day) i honestly thought that babies did need to be wrapped up more than older children because i always see them like this in shopping centres.
   so without Ninks' knowledge on this issue (and to all other issues that are ever raised with a "ooh, i didn't realize that", people like me will be better prepared when the time actually comes.

I frequently get tolf off by oldaldies for not wrapping ds4 up enough... I'veraised 3 other kids without them dying of hypothermia, think I know a bit about dressing smallboys now LOL

I do have a snowsuit for ds4 though- used on cold school walks etc. Not needed in the car.

YANBU Ninks,she sounds odd.

I never put DD in her car seat with her snow suit on, I keep the snowsuit for walking the dog when she is in her ptam or late night shopping. I always take off blankets or at least undo coats when in shops as most of the time they are really warm. Sometimes people grab her hands or feet and say she looks cold but she is happier cooler.

My friends DD1 had a febrile convulsion in Asda cos she was swaddled up like OP mentioned and after just 5 minutes in there she was sweating and fitting. She had tights, vest, trousers, t-shirt, jumper, hat, snowsuit and wrapped in a blanket. There was thick snow outside and very windy but she hadn't thought to unwrap her as she was still asleep.

I was always terrified of DD overheating when she was a baby. She was born in the middle of winter and it was very cold, so if we went out in the pram she had on her babygrow and cardigan - and then two doubled over fleece blankets and a hat, which I would whip off the moment we crossed the threshold of a shop.

She is nearly two now, and I still always take off her coat when we are on the bus, or in a shopping centre (although she loves her woolly hat so much she'll often start screaming and sobbing if I try to take that off. So if anyone sees a toddler in a woolly hat a a t-shirt in a shopping centre, it's probably my DD )