To want to wait another couple of years for kids?

[Kiwiinkits]

OK here goes. I'm a career girl. I have a great job which required a lot of hard slog to attain (2 degrees, advanced post-grad quals, long hours in the early years). I'm 30, and I've just reached the point in my career which has me running projects, flying around the world to advise clients, managing staff, earning great money etc. Things are going well in the career department shall we say. Thing is, I'm getting married in a few months. My husband to be is 40, wants kids, and wants to start TTC immediately. He is in consulting, runs a business from home, and is successful in his own right. I like kids and I think I would be a great Mum, if I chose to give my job up. I think he'd be a great Dad, too, but sometimes I wonder whether he realises what sacrifices children require. I think he likes the thought of being a Dad, but he probably won't like the reality as much, IYSWIM. Can't see him really sticking with being a SAHD. Thing is, I don't really know if I can manage both a great job and a great family life. The age old dilemma for us modern girls!
My parents were wonderful to us growing up. My mother, who was a SAHM, gave us 100% attention and love. I want to be able to do the same. It just means sacrificing so much...

So. AIBU to ask my husband to be to give me a couple more years of career? Or, should I just realise that there's never a good time to start a family and just jump right in?

Thanks

Aaah Colditz your description of a typical day is exactly what I was worried about!

Has anyone here had the experience of working 3-4 days per week, while your husband was at home looking after young kids? Honestly, did it work out for you? Or did it just end up in more frustration and relationship angst?

Is it unreasonable to make a man of 40 wait for kids for much longer? He is WWAAAAAY more clucky than I am. I'm mildly clucky but I could resolve that pretty easily with a little dog... if someone else looked after it during the day, that is.

colditz some careers are actually going to be there when parents decide to return to the workforce. I know people will always be unwell and need to use NHS so for me, there's always going to be a career there for me to return to. You are right though in the sense that not all people are as lucky as myself, to just walk straight back into a career 7 or 8 years down the line.

It's a tough call really, but OP you will have to mull it over a bit more. You don't seem too sure from what you have posted so far.

I left my 1st born with exp while I worked to support the fmily - I resented hugely that he

a) didn't parent as well as I felt able to
b) didn't seem to do any housework and left it for me
c) didn't try to get a job.

But to hear him talk he was the best dad in the world!

Life is easier when you both work, not both full time, and you farm out some housework and childcare - or at least some childcare. Otherwise resentment builds on both sides, from the SAH parent slogging their guts out for no reward and a pile of donkey work, and from the WOHparent slogging their guts out to see their wages vanish into a haze of 'non-essential' pretty baby grows, and cafe coffees, and to return to a dirty unkempt house at the end of a day at work...

I've done both, and both is hard. If you definately want kids, and what I have said hasn't put you off, go for it. You'll probably really enjoy yourself. Don't make the mistake of thinking I am exaggerating though!

Why don't you pay for help for a few days a week so your husband can work as well? Perfect balance.

My DP is 40 and our daughter was an accident,she's now 20 months.I would have liked a 3 year age gap but my DP wanted to get on with it becuase of his age which I can understand.I'm a bit younger at 32 and now preggers with no2.We were lucky though and got pregnant 3 times with little or no effort,(I also had a MC).

There is no right time to have kids but you sound like you are in a stable relationship in many ways so I would say go for it.

OP - I didn't feel ready to have kids, but I knew I wanted them some day and for some reason I had an irrational fear that I wouldn't be able to concieve, so I just went for it (aged 29). As it was I didn't have any probs and now have 2 DCs that I wouldn't be without for the world.

I had (have) a good job (management level), and went part-time when DC1 was born. I can't lie and say its not a struggle. I sometimes feel that I'm not particularly very good at being a mother or a good employee, but I manage and I'm happy (and so are DCs). I have been lucky enough to stay on the same pay grade, but I hardly ever travel abroad now, and quite often feel out of touch with what happens when I am not working. But its a compromise, and for me its a GOOD compromise. TBH most of the time I'm a bit more interested in what school play costume DD needs, and not quite so interested about the business section of the paper!

If I was you, and I could see a future for myself which includes children, then I wouldn't wait more than a year or two longer, as you can't rely on conceiving immediately. BUT there is no law that says you have to do exactly what your mum did and be a SAHM. You must make your OWN compromises.

Re. your DP, deep down I think you probably know if he would make a good SAHD. Can you imagine him going to toddler groups, doing fun activities with DCs, CLEANING THE HOUSE etc. My DH would be useless (unless you count watching Top Gear with DCs sitting on his lap to be engaging fun activities!!!) but I know a lot of DHs who do a great job as f/t or p/t SAHDs.

(Blimey, where's Xenia in this?)

From your OP I would say now is not quite the time for you, but your dh does have a voice in this. If I were you I would start discussing details of how you both see life after children, because it could help you both to engage with the whole idea and get your heads round it. Don't worry about people who laugh at the idea of planning before you have children - yes, you may feel differently afterwards, but in fact you do remain the same person once you have given birth, and if you make plans and know where you both stand in relation to them, you can also change those plans in a way that respects both your views.

Try reading How Not To Be A Perfect Mother - the chapter on working parenthood. I don't know if Libby Purves would write the same chapter again, but I think it's a good one and quite realistic.

Beware VERY much of having your mum as an internal standard. You are not her and you will not be exactly the same parent. You could consider having some chats with her about her memories of the early days as well - ask her which ages of children she prefers looking after, for example. Nearly everyone prefers different stages, it would be interesting to know which bits she liked/disliked most.

Undacova, you're right. Unfortunately I know my partner would be absolutely terrible as a SAHD. He's offered to do the SAHD thing, but I honestly think he would be crap at it (not that I'd ever tell him that). That's part of my concern. I think if he were in charge of the home-front I would come home and see the mess and see all the things he hadn't done. The things that I would do because I'm, well, a woman and I notice it and just do it when it needs doing. Like laundry. And I'd end up resenting him and we'd both be miserable. Can't win.
The only solution I can see is getting a nanny in for a couple of days a week + cleaner/laundry maid. Could work...

Can I second/third what Colditz said about a career not always being there. Anytime out of the workplace for FAMILY reasons (following DH around the country with his career) = no return to a career only to a job.
The more education you need for the career the less likely you are to be able to return at the same level.
I got to return to the workplace 2 grades down ie to job requiring instruction on how to count paperclips from a career specifying how to programme (from scratch) forecasting models and supervising the programmers doing it!! If I have to give up work again for Family I'll be lucky to come back as a cleaner. (No offence to cleaners - my mum ended up as one when she returned to work after us kids.)

I was in a similar situation to you - spent ages getting postgrad degrees etc, finally getting somewhere with career. Lots of international travel, all good fun. We started ttc when I was 30 - husband older than me and much more clucky.

Took a year to get pregnant - I took 6 months mat leave and then went back 3 days a week leaving DS with a nanny. It took a bit of settling in to be honest. To start with I REALLY didn't want to go back to work but after a month or so, I realised I was actually enjoying it. And also enjoying my time with DS much more too.

The travel continues to be a headache though. I've cut back as much as I can, but I still have to do 2-3 trips a year. International travel and breastfeeding IME DO NOT mix. Won't be doing that again

I'm 33 now and we're still trying for no 2 - had a miscarriage earlier this year. I fear it just gets harder as you get older. I wouldn't wait if I were you, but equally no need to completely give up your career.

If you´re earning such great money, couldn´t you both work and have a full time nanny/childminder?

Or decide to take a limited time off when baby v. young?

I have only scanned though, but very interesting thread.

Of course, the advice on MN will (almost) exclusively be from the people who did have children, not from those who didn't, and it would be interesting to hear how they feel about the decisions they made.

Now, at what point do the 'I don't want to not have had children when I am old' and the 'I don't want children in my life right now' somehow mesh together?

Interesting thread.

I agree with many of the points. Particulary that you don't necessarily have to be at a stage of being very broody for it to be the right time to have kids.

When I got pregnant for the first time at 29 I wasn't massively broody at all. I had a great job which I was enjoying. However, we had thought long and hard and decided that even though both of us would run a mile if a friend tried to hand us their baby to cuddle - ultimately we wanted kids more than we didn't. And looking back at the end of our lives we would feel sad if we hadn't had children.

And I agree that there's no right time to have kids at all. I don't think many people stop and think "Yes, my finances are healthy and the nursery is painted - let's do it baby".

I would also point out that your fertility starts to decline from your late teens. 30 might not be old but it's still harder to conceive than at 25. At 32 it's harder to conceive than at 30.

I also found having another pregnancy and small child aged 34 that I really feel the difference in tiredness. I do think your energy decreases each year - I guess that's why we're supposed to have children in our teens, we have the maximum energy.

I've managed to combine my work/childcare with my husband. This has varied from me doing 4 days work/him 4 days childcare to him doing 4 days work/me doing 4 days childcare.

It's taken him a long time to twig that the washing basket overflowing means that the washing machine needs loading. He has found it frustrating and isolating at times doing the childcare. But so have I at times and I would say that he parents just as well as me. Just because he doesn't do housework like I would or take them to tumbletots doesn't mean the kids aren't well looked after.

Do you have much support? I imagine a kindly grandparent/friends nearby who can help would make a world of difference. And if you can find good childcare, it wouldn't be long before he would be getting some respite.

You also don't know how you will feel about a baby until it's born. Like you, I discounted the very clever natural rush of hormones that make you bond with your children.

I find childcare hard, dull, isolating at times - sometimes I long to be simply me again. But I love my children at an incredibly deep level where I wouldn't be without them, even when they are driving me mad. Despite never having felt broody, I'm very glad I had them.

Good luck with your decision!

It's a really difficult one. I can see your point of view and his too. You wouldn't necessarily have to give up your career to be a good mum. Don't feel that you would have to give them the same type of childhood that you had for them to be happy. Perhaps you could both cut down a little to three- four days and employ a part time nanny. It would be hard work but you may find it more fulfilling for both you and your husband than one of you giving up work altogether. This balancing of career/ family life will always be the case whether or not you delay having children by a couple of years. Whenever you decide to have children it will involve a lot of change, exhaustion and adjustment but lots of wonderful happy times too.

The decision 'put off' children for another couple of year will depend on:
How many children you would both like in total.
How you would feel if you (and he) did have possible fertility problems which delayed conceiving even further.
Whether you would be happy with having a young family when you are in your early 40s and he in his early 50s.
Your husband's health/ family history of illnesses eg premature heart disease, etc
How much difference two years will make in terms of your career progression.
How easy/ difficult it is for mothers to progress in your career.
How easy/ difficult it would be for you to work flexibly/ part time.
Good luck!

Colditz is telling it exactly how it is, imo. Some sahms do love it but a lot go out of their minds with the drudgery and tedium.

Surely you'd get maternity leave which would give you a taster of sahm-dom (though babies are much easier and less frustrating than toddlers on the whole so you may be lulled into a false sense of security).

If you did love it, you could give up work, if not return to work and employ a nanny. It will not be easy because motherhood isn't whichever way you do it, but it sounds like a better option for you than no children at all. Do you have a friend with two under thress you could spend a day with. That would give you some insight into what you're letting yourself in for. Knowledge is power. Good luck.

I think if you already think your husband would be useless and you already do all the laundry, then you need to listen very carefully to Colditz

Having children is 100x harder with a partner who is 100% a co-parent

Basically parenthood = laundry and cooking...

obviously there should be a NOT in that second setence

Colditz does tell it like it really is tbh. The routine goes like that for most parents. It's hard going at times, and it's never ending esp the laundry, tidying up after everyone, making nice dinners (and sometimes crappy ones like fish fingers and chips and beans when you are too exhausted to whisk up something fancy).

You never get a day off. At least with a job you can take a day off. I know it sounds all doom and gloom but it's better to know the hard facts than to be given a version with rose-tinted glasses on.

You don't have to decide now! Concentrate on your wedding first and enjoy that.

Then, if and when you do decide to have children there is still no either/or - see how you feel when the baby arrives, how long it takes you to get pregnant etc, how your work reacts etc, what happens with your partner's work etc.

IMHO, staying at home with one small baby is quite dull. But being at home with (in my case) three children at various stages of school/nursery/baby is much more fun and varied - more activities, wider social group, not that complete focus on PFBs that first-time mothers have (no offence meant, I was one of the worst). I've moved from working full-time, to 30 hours a week, to freelance project-led - there are lots of options and no absolutes.

I'm not actually sure it IS better to know how hard it is. I was in complete denial throughout my pregnancy (I actually kind of forgot I was going to end up with a baby), had no real idea what it was going to be like, and yetI seem to have managed okay with my 2 DCs. Its a bit like when people tell you how horrendous childbirth is - it doesn't really help, it just makes you panic. Sometimes ignorance is bliss IMO!

have kids if you want them at all - start now.

that which we would wish for is not always biologically going to happen - delay may mean not having kids at all.

if you don't want to have kids, then tell your soon to be husband.

Lots of good points already made.

Seriously consider how many children you'd like and how spaced out. Then factor in possibly up to 1-2 years to conceive and the fact that 1 in 4 or more conceptions ends in miscarriage. Also factor in already declining fertility and more rapidly so from 35 onwards. Realistically assess when you need to start trying to get the family you want in both a best case and worst case scenario.

Don't dismiss the effect of the hormones on how you might feel about your career/job. for many women who were v focussed on this pre-children, it suddenly seems less important after. Your priorities may change.

Also be realistic about what sort of work, hours, travel, ambitions you might have when you have pre-school aged children. Challenging work is fabulous, but when life is doubly full, can be twenty times as hard.

nope I'd rather have the hard honest facts actually, I don't like to have cotton wool pulled over my eyes - it just makes the impact more brutal.

I think if more people knew how hard it was they'd think twice about getting themselves into it elbow deep.

Ignorance is bliss with many things in life - parenthood isn't one of these things IMHO.

Dh and I started ttc when I was 29, and had our dd1 when I was 36, it can take a loooong time to conceive (of course it can also happen first time round, which is why I had dd2 when I was 37!)

I would also add that the quality of men's sperm declines as they age in the same way that women's fertility does. This can lead to more chance of miscarriage, and difficulty in conceiving.

I agree with everyone that says that the life of a sahm mum can be a relentless and sometimes dull one. I am very lucky to have a dh who has good hours so is around for the crazy 5 o clock bit of the day, and who is very hands on with our dd's.

I know you say he would be a rubbish sahd, but I think you never really know how you or your partner are going to be with your children until they are here.

Good luck with your decision

Kiwi - I work freelance sometimes 5 days a week but usually 3-4 when I'm in the middle of a project. I didn't need two degrees to do my job in TV, but I know plenty of people who do have them. I suddenly got the broody switch flicked on when I was 29. I didn't care that I didn't have a permanent job with maternity benefits nor that I had no guarantee of a job/career when I decided to go back to work after maternity leave.

It took 5 mnths to conceive. By which time I'd accepted a full time contract which I was hopng to return to part-time after 6 months.

DS turned 6 months and there was no job for me to return to and I didn't want to leave DS yet, was still BFing and didn't feel that I wanted to rush weaning. I despaired about finding another job. Wanted something part-time so I could plan childcare easily and then look forward to job security for when ttc #2. I wasted a lot of time applying for jobs in a down sized market, I thought changing industry into the public sector would be the best way of getting the most family friendly job.

In the end my money ran out and I had to put the call out to contacts in tv asking for freelance work. It started off as a temporary measure. But actually doing a job I'm good at, experienced at and actually get paid quite well to do is very rewarding. The days I work I get paid (making me feel like I'm makng a valuable contribution to the household) and the days I don't I get to spend with DS.

Going back to work when DS was about 8 months was much easier for me than when I had been considering it at 6 months. But every mother is different. Also I find working a lot easier than looking after DS. But I look forward to my days off to spend with DS.

DH helps out with childcare, he's self employed so has a degree of flexibility. My mum also helps in between her own shifts. And we recently found a nanny who was also happy to be flexible and fill in the days when all three of us need to work. But I won't lie, organising childcare around a freelance career is a nightmare. But I also appreciate that a permanent parttime job wouldn't pay as much.

I think I hav found the perfect balance for us at the moment. If a fulltime job was offered to me now, I'd take it as we're ttc#2. But if i have to continue freelancing whilst pregnant and then return to it after maternity leave #2, I will. I probably won't have any career progression whilst I freelance or work anywhere part time but I'm happy to put that aspect of work on hold while I concentrate on my family. I'm not completely out of the loop, so I do hope that when the child(ren) are at school that I'll have the energy and mental space to take on more responsibility at work.

There's never a right time to have children in terms of your career. There's only ever a right time for you to compromise your career for a few months years while your priorities change and you focus on your family. But it doesn't have to be all or nothing. If you enjoy your work now you can still enjoy it post baby.