To think that the welfare state is too generous if people in council flats have way more stuff than those on middle income can afford (no really lets have a discussion)

[splodge2001]

Maybe it's where I live (central london) maybe it's me (hmm, I don't think so) and It's definitely something that's been ruminating around my head for a while. An argument I've tried to unpick but I always come to the same conclusion.

I'm sure I'm going to be lynched but I'm keen to get other people's perspective on this....Here we go...

Where I live private housing is expensive and intermingled with social housing. It's hard to tell the difference between the social housing and the private dwellings. Certainly on the open market they fetch very similar prices. I'm feeling grumpy because we (DH and I) pay a lot of tax which goes to the people down the road in social housing, of course we should pay tax to support those on low earnings BUT, it does start to grate when though people in subsidised housing seem to have much bigger disposable incomes. eg. everyone I know who lives in the council flats near us can afford a car, we cannot. They can afford several holidays per year, we cannot

Isn't the welfare state just a bit too generous to enable those on low incomes to afford more than those on higher incomes? Surely the point of welfare isn't to subsidise cars or 42inch TVs.

I'm sure I'll be told to move out of London if I want more but this doesn't address the issue that I'm raising. Why should I subsidise people living in central london when I cant afford to live here myself.

Analogy moment....

I have 5k and would like to buy a car, instead I'm forced to give up my 5k to the government, who instead gives it to someone else so that they can buy a car. Boo hoo!!!

Go on let the stoning begin!!!!

RIVEN.

splodge, your child is at one of what schools? the schools I said I wouldn't send a dog to? because I wouldn't send a dog to our local council estate school

• active police presence outside in the morning and at the end of school so stop the fighting/stabbing that is an everyday occurance

• v high teenage pregnancy rate

• 30% odd gcse pass rate

the place is a shit hole and needs razing to the ground to be honest.

oh jeasus christ dragonfly

PMSL @ Riven

OP you cannot be serious!! Do you seriously think are taxes would go down if everyone started to rent private or buy there own property!

In fact it would increase the housing prices and private rent if everyone had to come off social housing!!

TDWP!!! LOL!

Disenchanted, me too.

Currently on benefits, and wish I wasn't. It barely covers bills and food.

Also claiming living allowance, because council housing is so godawful.

We also own a PS3, two PC's, MP3 players etc. We must be sponging off the state and those poor tax payers (forget the fact that I was one before all this). We bought the big luxury goods before losing my job. And now, yes we do occasionally treat ourselves to computer games and fancy food.

I apolosige profoundly for not wanting to live off of Tesco value food.

Would you people complaining about people on benefits prefer them to be totally wothout any little luxuries, maybe they should donate what little money they get from benefits to those poor hard done by people earning above minimum wage? Or would you mind awfully if we use your hard won takes to buy ourselves boxes to live in? I promise we'll find a nice isolated field somewhere so we don't bring your property prices doiwn.

Seriously! You try living on benefits then come back on here and say how easy/luxurious it is!

Ahem Riven...may I interest you in the link I posted...

alwayslooking - but you get my point, I have no problem with people spending money on credit if there IS a genuine need, or, like you say, they order stuff when they still have a job etc, and then it all goes downhill and they find themselves in debt. There are people in this country with genuine needs and that is why we have a welfare state, it might not be much but at least there is a fall back if they need it (and as someone mentioned, if I or someone in my family ever gets into that position then I am grateful to live in a country where there is a welfare state). (not that I DO live in the UK at the moment but I will do again). However there are too many people out there who take the piss and it's all very well people on MN coming on and saying "but I'm in social housing and I don't have holidays/a fancy car" etc. But that's not the people the OP is talking about (as far as I can tell). She is talking about the people blatantly spending money they are not earning on things that people who ARE earning can't afford.

Of course that is not to say that if those people genuinally can't get a job they shouldn't be allowed a tv or a holiday or whatever. But when you see them living this extravagant lifestyle it probably is a little galling for those who are working their socks off just to get by....

"I also think that benefits should only be payable on the first child. "

farking nora - missed that one. And how does that work exactly for those that were doing very nicely thank you very much, and then - oh look we're in a recession and they lose their jobs, suddenly those 2/3/4/5 children they had become expensive to feed/clothe - but tough shit they'll only get benefits for one of them.

And that's not of course forgetting that paying benefits for only one child will increase hardship for the children.

Believe you me, they do not hand out money for being sick/disabled EASILY

They make you feel humilated, make you out to be a liar, belittle you, question your life choices all over something you have no control over and cannot help!

and times that by 10 if its a mental health problem, if they cant take an xray of the problem then they are damn sure your lying and will make you feel so guilty for being ill.

ok maybe its more evident where i live, where the council flats are grade II listed and larger than ours.

I agree with the poster about private schools - there's no way in hell i could afford one yet if you have a total income of

actually my dd will be going to our local community primary and it is an excellent school with an outstanding ofstead however I went to an awful school so I do know what you mean.

why do you CARE if someone lives in a bigger house or has more stuff - you want more stuff and a bigger house? get a better paid job

argh you are turning me into XENIA

so fucking what if the flats are grade 2 listed should we be living in slums. Op you are really starting to annoy me.

Claraquack, the op is talking about imaginary people. NO ONE on benefits can afford fancy holidays, fast cars and widescreen TV's. Though BrightHouse et al probably hekp with the latter.

Who IS this lady with the bidet? She interests me greatly.

claraquack - there's only one problem with your argument - you are assuming that only people on benefits/low incomes take out credit they can't really afford.......sadly it's something that applies right across the income spectrum. Lets not forget there have been "celebrities" that have in the past been made bankrupt.

Or are we saying it's ok for people who don't claim benefits to get themselves into debt to "keep up with the Jonese" but not for those on benefits.

Disenchanted - DH has his ESA medical tomorrow - and yes it's a mental health one so god knows what they're going to be like.

Hmm, interesting one (as ever) Our joint income is around £36,000 - I work f/t, dh works p/t, so i am the main earner. DD's nursery costs us £740 a month ds after school club is about £100 a month, of which we pay around £400. We get tax credits for these and thank God as we have (selfishly) run up some debts. These debts were run up last year when I lost my job and we were entitled to NOTHING as we have (selfishly) bought our house. Had we been in a council house we would have got most of our rent paid, which is a huge thing. We were literally three months from repossesion, which would have cost the country thousands having to rehouse us. So, yes I get pissed off when people on benefits have more than I do when I'm working my arse off. There is a family over the road from us in a counci house who really are beyond the pale. The police are there most days, he deals drugs, she sits on her bum all day and the kids run around screaming. At least once a fortnight, the council are round there mending things, putting new doors and windows in, supplying skips, repairing everything they've decided to trash. It Pisses Me Off.

Rant over.

Bidet lady must have some very clever children if they can win a scholarship to a private school...unlike the ones who just buy their way to a good university and a city law career. Ho hum, life aint fair, deal with it.

"Believe you me, they do not hand out money for being sick/disabled EASILY angry

They make you feel humilated, make you out to be a liar, belittle you, question your life choices all over something you have no control over and cannot help!

and times that by 10 if its a mental health problem, if they cant take an xray of the problem then they are damn sure your lying and will make you feel so guilty for being ill."

Words right out of my mouth Disenchanted. I've got an undiagnosed back problem (I'm not going to fill this thread with this, but if you look for my upper back problems thread you'll see how debilitating it is), but because it's undiagnosed I can get no help for it, I'm reliant on taxis everywhere, which cost a damn fortune! But I'm undiagnosed, unlikely to be diagnosed and not sure whether this is going to be a life long problem. But when I asked for help supporting the cost of getting around I was treated like a faker, and have been denied.

Think I should take a break from this, I'm getting upset and f**ing my muscles up.

Hope it goes well always, DH was upset and angry for days after his.

you earn substantially more than me yet I pay 600 a month of my own salary towards nursery fees, tax credits only pay 400 so we end up with nothing by the middle of the month! it is not always clear cut.

oh missed the bidet lady have her children at private school. Ditto what BoF said - and can I just add she's obviously helping her children with school stuff at home and thereby (hopefully) ensuring that they have better prospects than she perhaps does.

Op - have you met Bidet Lady and examined her accounts? Or do you "just think?"