To think that the welfare state is too generous if people in council flats have way more stuff than those on middle income can afford (no really lets have a discussion)

[splodge2001]

Maybe it's where I live (central london) maybe it's me (hmm, I don't think so) and It's definitely something that's been ruminating around my head for a while. An argument I've tried to unpick but I always come to the same conclusion.

I'm sure I'm going to be lynched but I'm keen to get other people's perspective on this....Here we go...

Where I live private housing is expensive and intermingled with social housing. It's hard to tell the difference between the social housing and the private dwellings. Certainly on the open market they fetch very similar prices. I'm feeling grumpy because we (DH and I) pay a lot of tax which goes to the people down the road in social housing, of course we should pay tax to support those on low earnings BUT, it does start to grate when though people in subsidised housing seem to have much bigger disposable incomes. eg. everyone I know who lives in the council flats near us can afford a car, we cannot. They can afford several holidays per year, we cannot

Isn't the welfare state just a bit too generous to enable those on low incomes to afford more than those on higher incomes? Surely the point of welfare isn't to subsidise cars or 42inch TVs.

I'm sure I'll be told to move out of London if I want more but this doesn't address the issue that I'm raising. Why should I subsidise people living in central london when I cant afford to live here myself.

Analogy moment....

I have 5k and would like to buy a car, instead I'm forced to give up my 5k to the government, who instead gives it to someone else so that they can buy a car. Boo hoo!!!

Go on let the stoning begin!!!!

i agree that the younger generations are worse off than the baby boomers. They rode an unprecedented era of wealth creation. i can only dream of having the retirement pot my mother has accrued (through her own savings on her income, and tax breaks and performance of investments).

I would also like to add I worked full time upto august of last yr, was made redundant but as lone parent was entitled to IS. Went back to college fulltime and also worked part-time upto feb this year until my disability was finally diagnosed and I was deemed unfit for work.

I've paid my taxes etc. So for the first time ever in my working life i've been on benefits and I hate being put in the stereotype of single mum on benefits in nice new council flat etc. I was on waiting list for 7 years and I have to scrimp and save every last penny for anything I need, even more so now to when i was working.

I always love these. You will never meet anyone genuinely living on benefits who can afford those things.

My next favorite thing is how if you make an effort you can have a career (perhaps as a top lawyer or company director).

I always want to say "so then who will empty your bins, clean your kitchen and fill the shelves in Tesco?"

^^they're all on telly that's why Wife Swap is the best one for hunting them down...

Apologies if I am behind the times but my blood is at boiling point.

Housing associations do not take tax money. They are self funding. They set their rents at a reasonable rate to cover costs, not make huge profits like private landlords.

Splodge, you can't afford a car. Ours was supplied by Motability as we have disabled children. Apologies if that offends you, I forgot people in social housing shouldn't have cars and shouldn't be able to get to hospitals and access vital health services tailored to their disabilities. We're not in London and we don't have public transport to the hospitals here.

Splodge it seems from your posts that you are 'skint' because of your huge mortgage.

Guess what... it was your decision where you live and you CHOSE to take that mortgage. You participated in driving the costs of housing UP so the majority of the population now cannot buy.

Congratulations. Be proud. Don't snipe because you are in a situation entirely of your own making.

Glitterknickaz

Most people get tax credits - they are a benefit as far as I know. Even relatively high wage earners can get some child tax credit.

BTW splodge - if you are still around I have thoroughly enjoyed this debate. Good original post designed to stir up discussion - that's what I love about mumsnet

Rents for public sector housing are self funding so there is no tax payer subsidy as far as I am aware.

I suspect that plasma tvs and high cost consumer items are often bought on credit which will never be paid back - so it is the easy availability of credit to people without the realistic prospects of paying it back that is the main problem here.

Of course it may be that all these stories are absolutely correct and that people on benefits live the life of riley with a lifestyle the rest of us can never aspire to.

But you know what- I'm not going to take the risk of chucking my job in to find out!

And I've noticed that the people who whinge about the advantages of being on benefits are never prepared to make the experiment for themselves. You'd think they'd find it hard to resist the lure of all those foreign holidays...

Yes im enjoying the debate too Jollypirate

It's important to test one's theories out in public.

I see weve moved onto housing associations. I was really talking about council property, which I have been informed is paid for by council tax, though i may be wrong on this.

Most people's answer is that I should move out. But I object to having to move out when council tenants can stay, and im truly sorry for people on shitty estates but I do know very well off people who have sent their kids to private schools because they bought their red-brick victorian mansion flat opposite the british museum for peanuts.

There are loads of people like this in Central London. Perhaps in the rest of the country council housing is not such a great asset but in central london it really is

i think its pointless to keep pointing out that the op is very much misinformed. Despite lots of evidence people tend to stick to their preferred version of events.

So even though I was a council tenant amoungst hundreds of others (who I actually mixed with) and neither I or them had holidays or jacuzzis, it makes not a whit of difference does it?

I lived in central London. It where I am from. I havent had a holiday since I was 22. Thats half a lifetime away. None of my friends managed more than a off peak Pontins. We were all overcrowded, we all struggled.

But you carry on with your version op if it makes you feel justified. That way you dont have to address what is really making you so discontented with your life.

splodge do you and your dp both work full time to be struggling like this?

What is your joint income? Do you know many people in the same boat as you are? And what are you going to do about it since you presumably don't have the option to stop paying tax?

Riven my thoughts exactly. I was happy in my flat with my healthy OH and my healthy kids.

Things have changed a great deal.

But we have two cars. So everything is ok.

Would you like them both splodge?

You can have OH's MS and you will have to give up one of your kids though - how great does it sound now?

But Riven it comes with a car and a parking space RESULT!

Whatdidisayroy-"raking in around £170 per week for 3 children"

Hilarious.

Splodge, I think you need to see some of the council estates in central London. They are not places to aspire to. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all central London council housing is red-bricked and Victorian; it most certainly is not- they are just the places you can see.

"But I object to having to move out when council tenants can stay"

I object to:- dogs, noisy people, smelly people, pollution, stupid people, people and anyone in front of me in a queue. But I live in a city, so I just get on with it.

I know Riven but I think others need a bit of education x

well i'm on benefits and I have nothing and can afford nothing.

It's nice to know people on middle incomes grudge me fresh air though

anything new, interesting, or funny on the thread since I last posted this morning - had HV and SW (straight after each other) and then bee out all afternoon.

Fill me in on the latest then .