To think that the welfare state is too generous if people in council flats have way more stuff than those on middle income can afford (no really lets have a discussion)

[splodge2001]

Maybe it's where I live (central london) maybe it's me (hmm, I don't think so) and It's definitely something that's been ruminating around my head for a while. An argument I've tried to unpick but I always come to the same conclusion.

I'm sure I'm going to be lynched but I'm keen to get other people's perspective on this....Here we go...

Where I live private housing is expensive and intermingled with social housing. It's hard to tell the difference between the social housing and the private dwellings. Certainly on the open market they fetch very similar prices. I'm feeling grumpy because we (DH and I) pay a lot of tax which goes to the people down the road in social housing, of course we should pay tax to support those on low earnings BUT, it does start to grate when though people in subsidised housing seem to have much bigger disposable incomes. eg. everyone I know who lives in the council flats near us can afford a car, we cannot. They can afford several holidays per year, we cannot

Isn't the welfare state just a bit too generous to enable those on low incomes to afford more than those on higher incomes? Surely the point of welfare isn't to subsidise cars or 42inch TVs.

I'm sure I'll be told to move out of London if I want more but this doesn't address the issue that I'm raising. Why should I subsidise people living in central london when I cant afford to live here myself.

Analogy moment....

I have 5k and would like to buy a car, instead I'm forced to give up my 5k to the government, who instead gives it to someone else so that they can buy a car. Boo hoo!!!

Go on let the stoning begin!!!!

quote: If you get even luckier it'll be a house with a garden.

Hardly anyone gets that lucky AND achieves a nice area too.

You'll be able to buy the council property (if you are somewhere decent you might want to). Unquote

We were one of those rare people who got to rent (not 'given') a house like this. We then bought it - yes depriving people of the chance to live here. Should I feel bad about that? Probably - but nearly every house in this road has been bought - about the only one that hasn't is the one I mentioned earleir with the tenants from hell who smash the place up regularly and STILL get the repairs done immediately. In response to an earlier post - no, we would never expect our repairs to be done as we are buying the place, but where the hell do people like that get the right to trash social property and stick their fingers up at the rest of us?

On a more amusing note, the neighbours are outraged

and lets forget having the initial outlay for deposit, agents fees etc.

Yes Goodnightmoon, you are right, but even house owning and selling gives you more flexibilty than social housing, and the chances of getting Social housing, or a private landlord who takes DSS, in a good catchment area, are slim at best.

all the more reason to work harder and give up benefits.

It's not that easy though . Loads of people on benefits WANT TO WORK. Most of them infact, but cannot find jobs with suitable hours for childcare/enough money to make them better off.

Retraining for proper careers are the only chance they have and that's bloody hard and takes years. Even after that, there is no guarentee they will be employed on the wage/hours they would need.

oh yes of course - try telling that to the minimum wage workers that keep the cogs of this country turning, the cleaners, the carers, the factory workers etc etc.

Of course their earnings potential is SO huge isn't i .

i agree there are challenges, i'm just being flippant. the whole system needs overhauling. better standards of education for everyone would be an excellent start.

I've started doing a degree with the OU - "hopefully" it will lead me into a half decent job in family support/social type work. There's also a good chance it won't bring me any better paid work, but hey at least I'll have the piece of paper at the end of it all

well be assured that, on average, higher education does translate into higher wages over time.

yea - better standards of education will solve the problem of people not being able to find well paid jobs. Tell that to 1000's of graduates who fail to find "graduate salary" work.

My SIL has just started working as a family support worker, the pay is pretty dire (but her DH earns well so it's not a huge issue).

She has a degree, and a Phd as well the the qualifications that she got to be able to do her current line of work.

yes for some it will, but it will NEVER lead to better paid jobs for everyone. Unfortunately in a capitalist society there are always going to be more "bottom rung" jobs than there are jobs higher up the ladder.

I guess that's where the NHS has gone rather wrong - too many managers and not enough staff actually doing the work.

oh dang - just remember what the 3rd "job" was that I kept wanting to add to my list with cleaners and carers, childcare workers - the ones who look after your children while you're at work. Their wages are often pitiful too.

There have been threads on here for people who have just separated from their partners and found that when together they could not qualify for working/child tax credit, but now single are raking in around £170 per week for 3 children no matter what the ex is or is not paying in maintenance. I remember reading a few of those threads and was a bit as I presume that is just one thing that can be claimed amongst several.

I know nothing about the benefits system or council housing so only adding this bit which has definately been said several times.

sure. i graduated from university into a recession and spent several years making a pittance in retail and answering phones. but over time, i was able to find better paying work because of my qualifications.

my nanny (and cleaner) actually make very good money. Her gross pay is about equal to my net pay, and I've got a BA and Masters degree. We are both very experienced in our fields.

"well be assured that, on average, higher education does translate into higher wages over time."

The average wage of all graduates over a lifetime is higher than the average wage on non-graduates over a lifetime. This says NOTHING about how a degree will effect an individuals wages.

Acanthus - Tax credits are benefits.

lots of things can affect an individual's wages. If you want to get a sense, you can look at data tracking the average outcome.

imo people that earn good money should be taking up the council houses.

leave them to the people that need them more

concil houses are benefits really when you consdier they often charge half the going rate on rent

You didn't make any comment on my last post splodge. About my little housing association house and the fact that i pay every last penny of my housing costs.

Oh and i also share a room with my teenage child......still no comments?

Do you still feel EVERY one of your points are justified??

You got any friends in rl?

well most cleaning jobs advertised round here are minimum wage, as are carer and childworker jobs - you have to work a lot of hours to make anything like a "respectable" amount of money from it.

I'm talking about nursery wokers - not nannies.

"sure. i graduated from university into a recession and spent several years making a pittance in retail and answering phones. but over time, i was able to find better paying work because of my qualifications"

Things have changed. Our children will not thave the life we've have just as we have no chance of the opportunities the baby boomers generation had, the sooner we get used to that the better.

I guess the problem is that 'everyone' seems to be going to university/college right now. When I left school, it really was only the top percentage who went. It was completely inaccessible for a lot of 18 year olds. Now, anyone can go. Not saying it's a bad thing, but I have been very clear with my eldest (now 19) that if she ever decides to go - after finishing her neverending 'gap' years , she will need to think very very carefully about what course to take.

Well I have said before I think everyone should have the right to apply and stay in a council property, everyone because it would pull the rug from under the rich land owners who set the house prices in this country and have signed an entire generation up for debt slavery, all whilst under a socialist government, the irony.
Or else the debt will be inflated away along with pensions and savings, head you loose, tails you loose too.