to think that grown women should not to too scared to walk home alone after dark?

[nicepasta]

I live in a small town.

When we go out or to meetings, none of my friends ever walk home alone. It really annoys me. They say it is too dangerous. They spend ages working out who is giving lifts to who - and these people all live within half a mile of wherever we are going.

Our town is no more dangerous than any others. They all seem to be convinced that there is a really high risk of being attacked. They always tell me that I shouldn't walk home by myself. I think it is utter nonsense.

AIBU?

and flashed at - again in broad daylight.

I'll shut up now.

I grew up in London, and I would happily walk home in the dark from clubs or after a night out, without any worry. But part of that was because central London is usually busy. So, it may well have been 5 am in the morning, but there was still a traffic jam on Charing Cross Rd. And I know central London, I feel safe, I know where I?m going and what to avoid; I feel comfortable.

On the other hand, I remember being in Harrogate (nice,genteel place) for a work thing once and I had to walk back to my hotel at about 7pm and I was terrified. I had no local knowledge, there was nobody about, it was pitch black, and I was very annoyed with myself that I didn?t take a taxi.

My risk of being attacked was equally low in both cases, but my perception of the danger was very different.

I do, though, really dislike the fact that public places are seen as ?dangerous? for women with the focus on women changing their behaviour to accommodate the risk. It does perpetuate a culture of fear.

It reminds me of backpacking around India (on my own) years ago, and in some towns and cities, the streets were empty of local women by about 5 pm. Just no presence at all - gone. It was very disconcerting indeed.

In my teens I was riding my bike at dusk on a country road and a car pulled up in front of me and a man wound down the window (shows age) and had a big UK map in his hands. He asked me where was a certain village and I leaned into the car a bit to point to the route. He then removed the map to reveal a big bare willy. Yuk. I cycled off with my heart thumping. It was literally terrifying. But I didn't tell my parents because I decided they would make me stop cycling places and that would be a curb on my freedom.

Why should I give up my freedom for a complete weirdo?

Dh was the victim of a completely unprovoked attack standing at a bus stop in a busy city centre late at night.

Actually, most men I know of dh's age (30s) have been the victim of a night-time attack at some point since their teens but we don't expect them not to be out after dark on their own.

Dh found it very frightening to be out alone after dark for a while and then he got over it. I wonder if society's complete lack of attribution of blame on him (noone would have felt that it was his fault that he was out on his own at night) helped with this?

I'm quite happy to go out on my own at night. Have never been threatened and think I'm far safer than a young male in the same position in this city.

I have been the victim of (mild, thankfully) sexual assault on more than one occasion. Always in broad daylight or indoors though.

Dittany - yes, think same thing happened when the Ipswich murderer was on the loose.

One of the times the Ripper was arrested (and let go) he was outside my (girls) school. Before I went there, thankfully, but we still had dodgy men in dirty macs standing on the footpath next to our sports field watching us play hockey. Can't understand why the school didn't just call the cops, tbh. Seemed to be tolerated as a nuisance that you just had to ignore.

I walk around all the time, I have no choice - no car and no money for taxis. But I always did wehen i was younger too.
I have always adhered to 2 rules
1: NEVER go out in shoes you cannot leggit in
2: walk tall.

Most scary attacks in my town recently have been a) against young men/teen boys
b) In broad daylight
c) in town centre

If someone is scared to go out after dark, then it isn't anybody else's business.

But if people are saying to women or girls that they shouldn't go out, that they should arrange a lift, that the speaker will arrange a lift for them, that the speaker will insist on walking them home, that it is dangerous and unsafe to go out after dark, than I do think that is unreasonable.

It is encouraging in women a fear of their environment that is totally out of proportion to the actual risk posed. The consequences of that are that girls grow up to limit their own freedom because of a false perception of risk.

YABU.

I wouldn't walk on my own after dark. And I don't buy into the male protector thing, I would be happier in a group, whether that be male or female. Walking alone just seems a stupid, unnecessary risk.

Of course I should have the right to stroll down the street in the middle of the night safely, and I shouldn't be attacked. Of course I'm not the one in the wrong if someone does attack me. But that's not really the point. Being attacked is a clear risk. If you feel the benefits of walking outweigh the risk of being attacked, then great, that's your choice. Personally, I would be happier in a taxi.

This PDF has some really interesting analysis of statistics.

Sure, men are more likely to be victims of violent crime, but men are more likely to take risks (walking alone at night, when drunk for example). 2.3% of women become a victim of violent crime every year. A third of this is by stranger, another third domestic and another third by acquaintance. So at least one in a hundred women suffers a violent attack outside the home. Interestingly, people who go to pubs more than once a week have double the risk of being attacked than people who don't go. There is a clear risk there. It's a small risk, but it is significant.

Re: Self defence...

Isn't telling women that they should do some martial arts buying into the blame-the-victim thing as much as anything else?

Sure, martial arts are 'good for you' but there is an implication that if you're unfit or haven't given up hours of your life to learn a specialist skill, you're less deserving of safety on the streets.

Besides which, I don't think a bit of self-defence will necessarily help that much against a knife (or where I am, a gun).

YABU I don't walk home alone in the dark I was attacked when I was a student. Nothing to do with you is it.

I don't do martial arts just for self defence and certainly don't think that everyone should do it - it's not just a time commitment, it's a complete mental readjustment (certainly has been for me, anyway). And yes, a knife or a gun does bring in a whole other dynamic. You'd have better odds having some training than none, obviously, but still far better to not have got in that situation in the first place.

Martial arts isn't about getting yourself into fights. It's about avoiding them or getting out damn quick. (Well, unless you go into competition fighting, of course )

its rather like puting an umberella up when its raining.

of course no one is going to drown from the rain - but why not keep dry?

As long of the people concerned don't think that there is a rapist around every corner, they are taking sensible precautions.

Because nobody should go through life never having felt the rain on their face or without experiencing the freedom to go where they like, when they like, how they like.

If women didn't work or socialise, then they wouldn't have to go out ever, day or night. That would get rid of many risks and be a very sensible precaution.

RubberDuck - I don't know if that's something they only tell when you reach black belt standard My ex could chop blocks of wood in half with his bare hands though (and is not a big man at all - all about the technique)

LOL I get scared in my own house when it creeks - I live in one of the most rural places in the entire UK - there is NEVER any burglaries or anything here

What a wuss I am.....

and you know what? I don't care if I am judged for it. I would ALWAYS prefer to be safe than sorry.

It is may be because i was brought up in a rural place that cities terrify me though...

Funny first post on a parenting forum.

I prefer not to walk home alone after dark but, rather than bother with taxis and lifts, I generally arrange to walk home with in a group. I probably wouldn't be so cautious were it not for the fact that I regularly read my local neighbourhood forum where people, naturally, post about the street crime that they have witnessed or been victim of. So I am more aware of these crimes than if the forum didn't exist.

Hope that helps you op.

I worry far, far more about my DP walking alone after dark than I do about myself, to be honest.

I think what someone said about men not wanting to hit a woman is very true. Only a relatively small percentage of men would hurt a woman and an even smaller percentage would hurt a woman they didn't know.

When I was sixteen I was out with my boyfriend and about 4 of his friends when we were set upon by a gang of chav-type boys. We all ran away but I was too slow and the gang caught up with me on my own. As soon as they realised I was a 'bird' they left me alone.

Three of the boys ended up in hospital. I'd be far more worried about a teenage son than a teenage daughter.

Statistically, of course your teenage son is at higher risk of attack than your teenage daughter.

But I've never met anybody in me life who worries more about their son's safety than their daughter's - all things being equal of course.

Even my own militant feminist mum realised she had made a rod for her own back with that one - preaching about how girls need freedom, boys are at more risk anyway, until I reached teen age and suddenly she just was more worried about me than she was about my big brother.

I didn't let her away with it - I insisted on all the freedoms he'd had at the same age. But beware claiming in advance how worried something will make you.

my life - duh

YABU. I live in a small town with a low crime rate, whenever we go out I am happy to walk home on my own but some of my friends aren't, it doesn't bother me I'm nervous of other things that don't bother them. The thing that does annoy me slightly is one of my friends who is nervous walking alone expected me on one occasion to walk her right to her front door "as you can't be too careful", would have added an extra 10 minutes to my walk home and I felt that if she was that concerned she should have booked a cab rather than put me at "danger" as I am just as likely to get attacked and she is a lot bigger than me!

My suggestion of martial arts classes was because they do tend to make people feel better about themselves (not that it's Your Fault if you haven't done such things and get attacked.)
I have been attacked about 4 times in the course of about 25 years of roaming around at night, coming home pissed from clubs etc. The worst one was, actually, a gang of girls looking for a fight, otherwise there was one attempted mugging (I chased the fuckers off) and two actual muggings. After the last mugging, I remember a male friend offering to walk and other friends offering lifts, and refusting the lot because, if I'd started accepting them and treating myself as a fragile flower, I'd never have been able to go out again without being afraid and I was (and remain) single and car-free, so I need to assert my right to go where I want, when I want.
ANd the reason I get pissed off with the idea that women can't/shouldn't go out alone is partly that, the more women (and well-meaning people of all ages and genders) do go out, the safer and more comfortable we make the streets for each other, and also, the more it's said that being out at night is too dangerous for women, the more harm that does to women - the next thing it willbe curfews, and muggers/rapists getting reduced sentences because, after all, this loose woman wasn't undre male protection, she was reckless, she tempted the mugger/rapist, etc.

I think you have a point, pasta. I'd walk home through my town after dark.

But if other people feel nervous in the dark, you can't do anything to change it. Leave them be and just sort yourself out.

I wander about at all hours of the night here, in my home town. I have wandered up my street alone and admonished teenaged boys for setting fire to things.

So I'm either mighty brave or mighty stoopid. Not sure which.