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AIBU?

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Original poster

to be utterly shocked my another mothers comment today?

66 replies

sparkle09 · 10/11/2009 19:38

i was at a group today and the subject of the gary glitter programme came up in conversation,

so i was saying how i felt about when gary glitter was sobbing about his rights to live and said my feelings about that was what about the childrens rights to not be messed up for life because of what he done,

well this other mother replied, and i quote...

"if they were young they wont remember so wont be that messed up"

there was a sudden and shocked silence across the room, and i then replied, "of course they will be messed up if they were abused! how can you say they wont?!"

so after my outburst it went back to a shocked silence, i felt like i was going to explode!

i have been reeling about it all day, totally shocked!

OP posts:
teameric · 10/11/2009 19:40

YANBU what a stupid bitch

3littlefrogs · 10/11/2009 19:41

She is ignorant. Sadly there are huge numbers of ignorant people in the world - some who can't help it, but many of whom should know better.

Original poster
sparkle09 · 10/11/2009 19:45

the title is supposed to be "by another mothers comment" sorry.

teameric - my thoughts exactly! problem now is i have to see her every day in the playground!

OP posts:
chegirl · 10/11/2009 19:46

I spent the day at a child protection training session. It focused on how to protect deaf children.

At the end of the session one woman stood up and said 'yes that is all very well but you know some of the children enjoy it. What are you supposed to do then?'

She ran a parent and toddler drop in for deaf parents and parents of deaf children.

again

So OP yanbu but unfortunately there are an awful lot of ignorant people out there.

Try starting a thread about a 30 year old sleeping with a 14 year old and see how many 'well she knew what she was doing' 'girls that age can be very provocative' type comments you get!

harimosmummy · 10/11/2009 19:47

SHe would think differently if it were her kids.

It's easy to brush off what happens to others, I suppose.

I know it's only since I had kids that I really, truly empathise with mothers.

Adair · 10/11/2009 19:49

chegirl, I don't understand. Enjoy what? Abuse?

AgentZigzag · 10/11/2009 19:55

Adair, the 'they enjoy it' reasoning is a typical manipulative paedophile justification for what they do, but I can't believe that anyone else would even consider it to be true, what on earth is going on in their minds?

Chegirl, if I heard that at a child protection training sesh I would seriously consider looking further into it, they don't sound like they grasp even the fundamentals of what abuse involves, that is what they're at the training for I suppose, but still...

chegirl · 10/11/2009 19:56

adair no I dont understand either but I am assuming thats what she meant. Bloody scarey huh?

charis · 10/11/2009 19:58

There is a lot of hysteria about child abuse though isn't there? Obviously it is a very bad thing and people shouldn't do it but it is not as bad as murder. (I don't see why abusers are seen as worse than murderers by the media)

I think I agree with the woman in the op to the extent that those children abused in that nursery incident who were very small and not injured physically as far as I know will probably not be damaged in the long term (unless people tell them about it all the time). It goes without saying that I would be devastated if such a thing happened to my own children, but as relative harm goes it is better than them being run over for example.

scottishmummy · 10/11/2009 19:58

unfortunately some people have no grasp or gravitas for serious issues and also have cottage cheese for brains.

wolfear · 10/11/2009 20:01

Idiot

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 10/11/2009 20:01

One of the most challenging and difficult things about child abuse is that it's true that some children enjoy it. Not the pain of penetration, but the grooming part - the extra attention, the "loving" hugs and cuddles, the wee extra presents... all of this serves to confuse the child and obviously exacerbates the issues for him/her, of course, and probably isn't what the deaf group leader meant, but is nonetheless true.

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 10/11/2009 20:04

Charis
I worked with a boy who had been sexually abused when pre-verbal. He grew up to develop an antisocial personality disorder and became a predatory paedophile. I'm afraid that sexual abuse in pre-verbal children does damage them. And you don't know (thankfully) what happened to those children. I'm not sure how you can imagine sexual abuse of babies that doesn't injure them, tbh

I also don't understand what you mean about 'hysteria', Are you saying that the seriousness of sexual abuse of children is blown out of proportion? That it isn't that serious or damaging? I'm afraid that you are very ignorant on the subject.

cakeywakey · 10/11/2009 20:08

Charis, I can only think that you're trying to provoke a reaction. The only thing I'll say to you is that you're big, fat, wrong.

To the OP, this is the kind of fairy tale that I think people tell themselves so that they won't have to think about the full horror of the abuse that children are on the end of every day - from emotional, verbal and physical abuse all the way to sexual abuse.

I've been on a child protection course recently too and it deeply unsettled me. I would steer clear of people who try to trivialise the lasting impact that abuse can have. They are deluding themselves.

Lilyloo · 10/11/2009 20:09

Charis you have made a very valid point there.............

Some peoples ignorance knows no bounds !!!

onepieceoflollipop · 10/11/2009 20:12

I completely and utterly disagree with you Charis, and find it very sad indeed that you hold those views.

radstar · 10/11/2009 20:12

I dont think you can liken child abuse, especially sexual abuse to being run over. I can't imagine what prolonged abuse (not necessarily the children from that nursery)does to the mental and emotional well being to someone throughout the rest of their life, it certainly wouldn't be "better" than car accident imo. Physical injuries will heal.

teameric · 10/11/2009 20:13

I think I need to repeat my stupid bitch comment

chegirl · 10/11/2009 20:20

oldlady no she didnt mean this. She simply didnt have the insight.
Ironically I have had an argument with someone who insisted that children were all greatful (in the fostering and adoption context) for being removed from abusive parents. They could not grasp that children wanted to stay with their parents they just wanted the abuse to go away. She couldnt see the complexities of the abuser/victim relationship.

She thought that loving your abuser, not running away was a sign that it wasnt that bad or somehow you were ok with it.

My son suffered very early trauma. Not sexual. It has affected him without doubt. A baby's brain is making so many connections and developing so rapidly, anything that interrupts or disturbs mush surely leave a mark?

charis · 10/11/2009 20:28

I didn't say it wasn't a bad, bad thing fgs.

I think that reactions like this stifle debate and actually make the situation worse.

I know people who have been abused. They have survived and gone on to have reasonable lives (and before you jump up and down I do know that there has been damage done). There is a spectrum of harm which is what I was trying to point out. Not all abuse is equal.

Adair · 10/11/2009 20:34

chegirl, sounds ridiculous. And disturbing - why would deaf children be any different from other children in terms of being protected from abuse?

I wondered if maybe it was a comment about Deaf culture (ie wanting to remain Deaf rather than be 'cured').

I am well aware of the 'enjoyment' argument with paedophilia. And was about to post what Oldlady said - children DO sometimes (often?) enjoy abuse. But it doesn't make it any less abusive (as Chegirl says, just more confusing for the victim.)

Chegirl for your son. But be aware that you being aware of it and acknowledging it and being ready to deal with it will undoubtedly help. My trauma wasn't dealt with and I am fine. Your son will be well equipped to be better than fine.

Oblomov · 10/11/2009 20:36

What a stupid comment.
OP my dh was one of the boys who went to the Walton Hop where Gary Gliiter Dj'ed. We live a few miles from it, still. He is 44 now. Forget ? You've got to be fucking kidding me. Nothing happened to my dh. But he knows lots of boys that did. And it has deeply affected my dh. How can someone make such a silly comment.

Pheebe · 10/11/2009 20:37

Charis, the point is that there may well be a spectrum of harm and all abuse may not be equal on a population level. BUT ALL ABUSE IS TOTALLY AND UTTERLY UNACCEPTABLE ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL WHETHER THE INDIVIDUAL REMEMBERS IT OR NOT OR SHOWS EXTERNAL SIGNS OF LASTING DAMAGE OR NOT. This is not a point that CAN be debated. It is simply unacceptable.

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 10/11/2009 20:38

Reactions like what? Seriously, which and whose reactions?

There are obviously variations on the damage caused by child sexual abuse. But you can't predict it. There are so many other factors that affect a child's resilience.

Oblomov · 10/11/2009 20:40

CHARIS, I really don't think you have a clue. I'll ask all my friends who are married to boys that went to the walton hop and get back to you, shall I ???