to be utterly shocked my another mothers comment today?

[sparkle09]

i was at a group today and the subject of the gary glitter programme came up in conversation,

so i was saying how i felt about when gary glitter was sobbing about his rights to live and said my feelings about that was what about the childrens rights to not be messed up for life because of what he done,

well this other mother replied, and i quote...

"if they were young they wont remember so wont be that messed up"

there was a sudden and shocked silence across the room, and i then replied, "of course they will be messed up if they were abused! how can you say they wont?!"

so after my outburst it went back to a shocked silence, i felt like i was going to explode!

i have been reeling about it all day, totally shocked!

Adair Thank you. I worry, a lot. I know it has had physical affects which we are trying to deal with. The emotional ones are harder to define and therefore help him with. He is a love though

I dont think the woman was referring to deaf children exclusively. I think it was a comment born out of total ignorance. The way some peados justify what they have done because the child's body was responding. 'Her mouth said no but her body said yes' . I have heard that several times.

People are stupid.

I wouldn't even attempt to justify the other mother's remarks in the OP as they were crass, wrong and quite frankly bizarre. However I caught the last 35 mins approx of the programme last night and I've got to say shock for me would have descended when the OP made her comments. The programme I think was very successful as an utter condemnation of capital punishment. I found it very difficult to sleep after watching it due to the hideousness of the dramatisation of modern Britain with the death penalty reintroduced - the circus around it and the horrible horrible imagined details of a state organised hanging.

I didn't see the dramatisation of the investigation/crimes etc due to switching on towards the end and I'm sure I would have found all that deeply horrible too. However I would have been pretty shocked to have heard anyone appearing to be arguing in favour of the death penalty after watching that and would have seriously wondered if they'd actually watched the programme.

Oblomov I think what OP was trying ot say is that she was shocked at the other mother saying "if they were young they wont remember so wont be that messed up"

Any type of abuse be physical/sexual/verbal is horrid and damaging, and it doesn't just damage those abused it affects people around them and there families and their children.

It is often said that abusers go on to become abusers this isn't true in every case but if a child is so young and has abuse all there life and doesn't know it is wrong they can't really help it I know of a few friends who were abused and it has hurt them in their adult life now, its so so sad, the cycle of abuse has to be stopped. Domestic volience (sp) witnessed by a child can bring a child to believe this behavour is acceptable and can also go on to hurt that child and destory their confidence, and the are just witnessing/hearing it!

My mum used to be an emergency foster carer and we often had children from abused homes, and domestic volience (Sp) it is so sad and there is lots of it about unfortunately.

The case of the nursery sickens me I don't get why someone would "get off" on touching a baby or a child sexually? It does't sit right with me at all, its not just the children that will be impacted but there parents I find it hard to believe that they were not physically damaged in some way???

Oblomov sorry to hear your husband has been impacted by abuse its so sad

mysteryfairy - i should have explained better, i had had said earlier in the conversation today that i was very uncomfortable with the death penalty and really hope it will never be bought back.

it was that point of the programme that brought my raw emotions and thats when i said about the rights of the chilren abused,

sorry i didnt want my op to be long so i shortened the story.

oh yes, Charis, and lilyloo, an adult sticking their grown penis or bottles or dildos into the tiny vagina or rectum or mouth of a baby repeatedly, and then passing them around the room to your pissed up mates will not have any effects on them...

You are talking such rubbish. The its not all that bad argument, what the fuck would you know? Are you child protection specialists? paedatricians? nurses? incest and rape survivor counsellors? Or victims yourselves?

Sorry Sparkle - obviously all about the full context. I'm glad you thought all the details of the programme were hideous too - I could have cried to think people could watch the details of the death penalty bits and be unmoved. To be horrifed about the child abuse details, which I'm glad I missed, goes without saying for most people. I had wondered if the other mother was opposed to the death penalty and blurted out something hopeless because she couldn't quickly come up with a coherent response to some string them up type comments. That is clearly not the case so I can't imagine any good reason for saying what she did.

I think the question is if the child is of an age where they have no concept of what is happening to them/or that it is wrong and no memory at all (and I would say this is a not just preverbal but a lot younger)- and there is no physical harm- does this always have an ongoing impact on the baby - in the same way it would on a child who could remember to some degree /where the abuse impacted the child's ability to relate to others/the child knew it was wrong and had to deal with this.
The point was raised with respect to the nursery abuse cases and I know experts said it did- but I wasn't sure why.
Asking this though seems to get the reaction that you are an idiot etc and no explanation as to why/expert view

Butterscotch, oh no I did understand that Op was a s shocked as we all are re this mums comment.
And please understand that my dh was not abused. But every man I know , between the ages of 40'ish went to the walton hop. Where Jonathan King did his worst.they all did. and they all have been affected. some minorly. my dh and all his friends are anti gay. very anti paedophile. very anti.... it is a generation thing to all these boys of that age. some of it illogical. but it goes deep. believe me.
And before you say, oh they shouldn't be this or that,anti gay/paedo / whatever, please you have no idea what a big thing the King thing was round here. and is still talked about.

VERY young children MAY not remember but thats hardely the point is it? They are most likely to know (being told, vague fog, flashbacks etc) as they get older....

not nice to say that, but maybe she just didnt think it through.... though she should have retracted it sharpish....

YANBU.
I remember being assaulted.
I was three.

Glitter

oh don't be.... I feel kind of 'distanced' from it iykwim...
but I remember

Charis raises an interesting point: at what age do we have to be 'remember' events good and bad? I have no memory of anything at all before 3, and I believe this is the age generally accepted as being the beginning of what we'd consider to be memory. If someone (God forbid) told me I'd been sexually abused at, say, four months but not badly enough to leave lasting physical wounds, I'd have no way of knowing if it was true or not.

I think Madame, that Lily was actually disagreeing with Charis.

trauma will affect the body and the mind. extreme physical pain, fear, terror will imprint on the brain as the body is flooded with high stress chemicals to combat the assault...babies brains are very vulnerable, and the experience of extreme pain will traumatise a child emotionally.

There are many studies on how loss and seperation affect children (pace Winnecott), even very small babies suffer deep trauma if separated from or losing a parent, imagine how the baby feels at being raped. Fear, shock, extreme physical pain, terror....those are all physical and emotional experiences that have a severe impact on the development of a child.

Problem is that your brain wiring is all happening when you're tiny, so what you are exposed to from birth does go to shape your future self, to a greater or lesser extent.

People may not remember, but something may have happened in the way their brain works/their emotional centres because of it.

So yes of course it always matters

was she? sorry, the irony went over my head.

I mean, apologies, Lilylou.

madame defarge read my full post please......

sorry x post

thanks Lizzy

I think as well as having "repressed memories" the children would grow up in a completely different environment once the parents know what happened (in the Facebook case). I don't know thta I would ever let my DS's out of my sight again if something like that had happened to them.

So their whole world would be different, they would grow up completely differently to how they would have been parented iyswim (sorry, not being very clear)

S'ok, Lily

I'm not entirely sure that I disagree with Charis

You cannot equate death with anything else or abuse with anything else as they are separate things

but, nowadays there seems to be some sort of salacious element to the reporting of abuse, and the sort of attention it attracts in the popular media doesn't inspiire us to feel proportionately worried about the number of abusers or the abuse or the trauma that they leave in their wake

I hope that what Charis was trying to say was that if given a choice between the two that she'd rather something less final that death.
Also I agree that the death or murder of a child is of less importance to the popular press atm than the story of a sexual predator and that the death of a child should still be held as the worst and most greatly reported and worried about crime