to think home births are selfish?

[woozlet]

I just watched a 'desperate midwives' that I had recorded and there was a home birth on it which went wrong. It worked out ok in the end and the baby was ok. But I was really scared watching it, it just seemed like an unnecessary risk to take.

It was a scary episode, I agree. But I'm not sure sweeping statements such as yours are terribly accurate.

YABU

YAB totally fecking U and I imagine you know this already.

Oh yes, and you never get hospital births go wrong, do you?

Ridiculous generalisation.

YABU. And talking a load of shite. I've not seen the program you're talking about, but home births are generally safer than hospital births, and end in less complications.

I know this is from Wiki, but this is what NICE says about it:
"With relation to women?s and babies? outcomes for home births, there is a lack of good quality evidence. The evidence in relation to perinatal mortality is not strong enough to support past or current policies of increasing or decreasing current provision outside consultant units. Women should be offered the choice of planning birth at home, in a midwifery-led unit, or a consultant-led unit [hospital]. Before making their choice, women should be informed of the potential risks and benefits of each birth setting.
"As a minimum," the NICE report continues to state, such information should include the following:
Planning birth at home: increases the likelihood of normal vaginal birth and satisfaction in women who are committed to giving birth in this setting, compared with planning birth in a hospital
Planning birth in a consultant-led unit: increases the likelihood of pharmacological analgesia, interventions and an instrumental birth, and decreases satisfaction, compared with planning birth in other birth settings. There may be a lower risk of perinatal mortality when care is delivered in a consultant-led unit." [14]
Since the 2007 review, a study of 529,688 low-risk planned home and hospital births was reported in the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology in 2009. The study concluded:
A home birth does not increase the risks of perinatal mortality and severe perinatal morbidity among low risk women, provided the maternity care system facilitiates this choice through the availability of well-trained midwives and through a good transportation and referral system. [15]
Further, the study noted there was evidence that low risk women with a planned home birth are less likely to experience referral to secondary care and subsequent obstetric interventions than those with a planned hospital birth. [16] The study has been criticised on several grounds, including that some data might be missing and that the findings may not be representative of other populations. [17]"

I have had one hospital and one home birth - the hospital birth was so traumatic and I felt like a piece of meat on a table. I ended up in stirrups, pushing against gravity, numb from the waist down - which was actually completely unnecessary. There's this trend for medicalised births because women have lost faith in their bodies - and with attitudes like yours it's not difficult to see why.

yeah I thought I might get a reaction like that!!

why shouldn't women give birth in the place of their choice?

I just think giving birth is about the baby. And both baby and mother's health. And in hospitals they are equipped for all eventualities, at home they are not.

How can you know it won't all go wrong?

I am willing to change my mind on this, but at the moment it seems selfish to me, it's the baby's day to be born safely. That should be the priority over whether you can get into your own kip after.

YABVU -not higher risk at all for healthy women. In fact by avoiding hospital you're also avoiding the threat of being exposed to any hospital-acquired infection (i got with ds1 whereas no problem with ds2 born at home).

There's also a potential saving to the NHS and therefore you as taxpayer in avoiding the cost of funding an overnight stay in hosp for mother and baby!

Statistically, a properly managed home birth is as safe or safer than a hospital birth.

Things can go wrong anywhere, and in all but 99.9% scenarios this can be easily sorted at home or after a safe transfer to hospital.

You might as well say that women who give birth in hospital are selfish for risking hospital acquired infections, accidents on the way to the hospital and lower staffing levels.

There are risks to a hospital birth too, just different ones. It's up to everyone to assess their own situation and work out where the balance lies. If you do that sensibly and honestly, how is that selfish?

YABU. Isn't there data to show that actually home births are less risky overall than hospital births - either because you are generally only allowed a home birth if you are low risk, or because you are more relaxed at home and better able to labour without medical intervention.

It would possibly be selfish if you were strongly advised not to for solid medical reasons (and I don't just mean things like iron being slightly under the acceptable level where it is a judgment call) but in all other cases I think something unfortunate and unexpected happening during labour does not make the mother 'selfish' - how could she know it would go wrong, and how is it any more selfish than it going wrong in hospital and her baby potentially being at risk there while she has to wait for doctors to be free etc.

And I speak as someone who personally would never want a home birth.

Actually - just to confirm, we are talking about homebirthing and not freebirthing, which is something completely different?

Have you had children or is this just theoretical talk?

Women should have the choice. If they choose to give birth swinging from a chandelier that's fine by me (although possibly a little info on risks of vertigo might be appropriate!), if they choose a home birth that's fine, if they choose a hospital birth that's fine, whether bed, pool, spacehopper or whatever and if they choose an elective section that's fine. All informed choice fine. Judging not fine.

OK, cross posted. I totally agree that it has become too medicalised. I gave birth in a midwife unit where epidural etc wasn't an option. BUT had something gone very wrong I was super close to the docs etc.

I guess I'm thinking this cos the mum on the programme was being selfish imo. She just didn't want to go to the hospital even when baby was distressed because SHE wanted to give birth at home. I was just sitting there like this -

Woozlet, the rate of interention in HB is far lower than in hospital, the rate of distress in the baby is far lower in H than in hospital, the rate of transfer to ECS is far lower in HB than in hospital.

There are loads of stats out there and yes, sometimes it does go a bit scary - but so can any birth anywhere. THe facts are that HB tends to be less stressful and kinder on the baby than hospital birth in an uncomplicated low risk PG.

Therefore your argument does not stand up - you say it should be about what is best for the baby, well stats and experience say that HB is best for the baby in many many cases.

Oh and I've had both a hospital birth and a home birth, and I felt MUCH safer at home.

Ambulance response time to my postcode was less than 5 minutes and I was constantly monitored and assessed by midwives.

In hospital I was frequently left alone and it took more than 15 minutes for anyone to respond to a buzzer when there were concerns.

Which situation sounds safer to you?

rate of intervention

yabu - how is it selfish?
There's always a risk with childbirth wherever it happens.

LOL @ spacehopper.

TYV - I was selfish for going into hospital (even though I was coerced in by the mw's) because the birth trauma I suffered as a result affected my bonding with ds and - i believe - was a contributing factor to the horrific PND i had.

Yes I do think in that instance you mention woozlet, where the baby is in distress, that a need for a HB shouldn't override everything else.

But I didn't see the programme.

Women eh? demanding that their bodies are their own and they will make their own decisions about it, uppity if you ask me.

bellissima I would think swinging from chandelier would be excellent position, not only do you have gravity, but a little centrifugal force would be likely as well!

I have been considering a HB and TBH it looks safer for both me and the baby than a hospital birth.

Hmm, woozlet, i can kind of see where you're coming from. I do think that if the mw's are suggesting you go in - assuming there's a medical reason for it (and not just, "Oh, you've been in labour for 4 hours, it's hospital policy to move you now,") - then you should go in. I don't think anyone would really disagree with you there.

I had a homebirth that went wrong (my DD swallowed meconium) and my midwife had to call an ambulance ( 2 crews one to take me and one for the baby) but in the end they decided that taking me to hospital was too risky, it was very scary and thankfully everything turned out ok (the midwives and ambulance crew were absolutely fantastic).
I'd decided to have a homebirth because my birth experience with DS was pretty straightforward (I did have to have ventouse with him but other than that it was fine) I'd expressed all my concerns with my doc and mw before hand and they assured me to go ahead, so no I don't think it was selfish at all, you just can't predict that something will go wrong.

Well Woozlet, possibly the mum in the programme was unwise or had her priorities wrong. I don't know, I haven't seen it.

But that's not the same as saying "home births are selfish" full stop.

It's totally ridiculous to look at one single situation and apply that to every home birth ever.