to think that the average debating ability of Mumsnetters has dropped considerably over the past year?

[colditz]

I was browsing through some old threads earlier, and the general standard of debate has dropped. People here used to be able to follow a thread and give a pertinent response, backed up with careful research. Lately the response is likely to be completely unrelated to the original point, and passive-aggressive to boot.

because sometimes you're responding to someone who addressed you many hours previously and it keeps the thread more readable, or sometiems someone is being a towering liar and could do with being reminded of that fact. i don't like it when people do what nightbynight says, but that doesn't happen on here.

Um, perhaps they are debating?

Actually scottishmummy, you used to be ScottishMummy... so you must have namechanged at some point... [sad person who notices these things]

nope never changed namechanged.such an inane name why change?

And the worst ever question on a thread to put a feeling of doom over the whole day - "is that enpirical research?"

Oh fuck off you daft mare, this is MN not Newsnight.

But Aitch, there are more elegant ways to address a point than C&P - by the way, just to adress the point you made earlier about helping people on abuse threads, having been in this position myself, I'd say it is worth helping people, even if they don't leave. I thought my life was normal - and it was several years after I realised that it wasn't, that I finally managed to make the split. Other people's opinions were invaluable.

ha ha I agree with you there, getoff. I once made an observation about the holocaust, based on my own research, and was shouted down with "where's your research? I have talked to holocaust survivors "etc
A few months later, I saw my own conclusions reported on the bbc with supporting research etc. (no link, obv - but I was pissed of at the pompousness of the mn pseudo intellectual)

ActuallY I usually post on inane topics such as grated cheese and eyeshadows, so don't get drawn into serious debates (other than an occasional foray into working mums V special moments SAHM battles). Actually, tell a lie, I went on to a STEINER CAPITAL LETTERS THREAD once which was a strange experience.

So am actually probably one of this philistine posters who the OP is on about, if I am to be perfectly honest.

DP - you and I were the only people on a thread recebtly who said that Liz Jones is funny, think we're MN pariahs because of that!

it totally depends on how fast the thread is moving, nightbynight, and what the situation is. it's not something i habitually do, i just don't have a problem with it at all and i actually think that anyone who does is a bit peculiar in the head given that this is a text-based environment.

as for empirical research etc, getorf, i can't think that i've ever seen that in nearly four years on here. but for the record, knowing whether something is based on actual stats or just a series of observations is kind of useful.

Re Liz Jones, do you really mean funny as in a good comedian, as opposed to a funny example of a human being?

suppose it arises from the bampots who cite research to support any spurious point

eg the working mum's cause childhood psychosis,pimples,piles,psoriasis sweeping pronouncements some make

I often miss a single quotation mark, and start reading thinking that it is the poster's own opinion, only to get thrown by a sudden switch in viewpoint.

you see it's words like "bampots" that make us all know and love you sm

Just trying to remember what threads I have seen it on - there have been several. To be fair I think it is a pretty understandable response to arguments which have been C&P's wholesale from WikipeDIA.

Anyway, is great to see Xenia back. She was over on the low class private schools thread earlier, made me laugh.

yanbu, I stopped arguing ages ago.

Liz Jones as in funny amusing (and funny as in in the head).

had never heards of ms jones til mn.she clearly appeals to the middle class chatterati her tittle tattle

I've asked for evidence before. Is that bad? I asked a poster for some just the other day in fact. She was using the word 'proven' in a quite provocative manner...

that's good to know, i think she's an amazing poster. if a little bit of a bampot, of course.

good research never definitively says proven

Yes. You were there too sm...

I left nearly a year and a half ago - not in a flouncy way, just had more important things to be getting on with. Came back earlier in the summer but it just doesnt feel the same. Thats not to say its any less interesting, funny, irreverent, smart than it was - I see plenty of posters having fun, I just dont relate to it. Have to assume I've changed.
I used to enjoy a good debate and I still feel strongly qbout all the same topics, but now I really cant be arsed to argue the toss with a bunch of weirdos on the internet.
I tend to hide the threads that I would have got stuck into 2 years ago because I am not willing to give up x amount of time on mn sparring and do I want to get all wound up? Do I want to see (imo) unreasonable gibberish in black and white and then formulate a response? nah, not really.
I do still love seeing posts from the people I admire - not even necessarily those I always agree with - but I bloody well wish cod could just be cod again, it was always comforting to see her on here.
I have seen a few posts that suggest there is a new MN royalty.... um, no, I think not. I really do believe there was a unique and razor sharp group that set the tone and kept interest levels up on here - much as I hated the witches, I dont see anything equivalent to that. There are still the same posters, its just all a bit more seperated, I used to feel there was a tangible spirit of MN that I dont see now and in some ways thats a good thing, it all got a bit ott and bulldozery at times.
Still, I do miss it - but I totally get that this is my perception only.

But of course this thread is a discrete entity...

haha i have to fight the ft working mum corner.it is a compulsion.

before some heid the baw shouts why have em if you put the weans in nursery.