in thinking that if we have monthly income of £3700 net we could spare £120 to spend on a cleaner?

[effedorf]

3+ years posting here, namechange for obvious reasons.

But, seriously, what do you think?

The income all comes from dh and I am sahm. We have two primary school age children. I truly hate cleaning and I do 95% of the food shopping and cooking and 100% of the laundry and 95% of all the other things that makes a family tick over.

Or am I being unreasonable?

I don't understand the husbands (not just yours Lily) who object. I mean if they object because the household budget really will not stretch to it, fair enough, but many seem to object because they think it is their wife's role in life to do these things.

Lily- that's not quite accurate. I have strong links to S/pore too. Not everyone maids and certainly not everyone with children has 'nannies', at least not in the sense of the word here. A significant proportion have a maid to do all the menial tasks around the home. Nannies (qualified people with childcare experience) are actually really difficult to find. I wonder if your SIL just had 2 'maids'- unqualified people from The Philippines, etc who come to S/pore as it really hard to find employment in their own country.

No, definitely a trained nanny.

Well maybe she was lucky but I have spoken to several Singaporeans (not ex pats) who tell me that it is v difficult to find someone qualified an 100% trustworthy.

Maybe it's different in different social circles. My BIL is an expat but SIL is Singaporean, and it is certainly the norm for her, and was the same when she was a child.

Cleaning is boring. If you can pay someone else to do it, do. It's spreading money around the economy after all.

I agree totally with Lilybolero. If I had the money i'd get a cleaner and someone to do all the washing and ironing. I would then use the time to relax, do an MA, spend more time with the children etc.

If you have the money what's wrong with delegating? If a company is doing well the director doesn't do the admin.

Sigh, why all the soul searching ?
if you want a cleaner, get a cleaner...

I love the fact that on MN it is not vulgar to discuss whether one has bumsex, whether one has a brazilian or a fully monty, but god forbid we should discuss income!

How crass!

Well, that's interesting Lily. I'm not sure it is great for the child/ children though to have a mum/ dad who just pick them up for occasional cuddles when they feel like it. I have a relative who is like this and the children are sadly neglected
However, this has nothing to do with the OP and all the other mums on the thread!

kitty, the reason I said about it is because a lot of the ' why do you need a cleaner' is cultural - and I was simply pointing out that in other countries they don't have the same hang up about employing people to help out, even when they 'could' do the work themselves

I would hate to have a full time live in nanny, would feel very claustrophobic. On the other hand, in some ways it must be quite nice for the parents to be able to enjoy the 'nice bits' with their child, without the slog of the hard bits.

It is a very different culture though - the babies are much more seen as being there to be looked after - in that they are often spoon fed until age 3 or 4, potty training is later, the nanny will do everything for the child till quite a late age.

But my point was that in other countries the question 'should I get a cleaner' wouldn't ever be asked, because the answer would be 'obviously'.

i am a sahm

i only recently got a job and its 2 hrs after school daily term time only. so not exactly going to make me rich.

dh does all the money making.

we have a ft 'housekeeper' (posh word for grumpy moo who drinks a lot of tea and hoovers now and then )

AND a cleaner 3 mornings a week too.

together they do all the cleaning, laundry and occasionally use initiative and clear out the barn or a cupboard or something.
marvellous.

and i dont give a rats arse what anyone thinks of it.

fact is, if you could afford help with the boring stuff, youd have it too. whatever the 'boring stuff' is to you.

and im actually employing two local mothers in highly flexible manner and helping the local economy in doing so. they would struggle to find work so convenient for them or so well paid.

where i come from, talking about specific amounts of money is not of itself, disgusting in any way.
round here it would seem it is.
where im from we thank for bday presents in person and open them right away.
round here its rude to open them right away and you have to write a little letter to say thanks.
observations.
Crass, rude, polite etc are all subjective folks. get over it.

when you've finished with your husband and the two staff could I have them please, ruffletheanimal? The only emotion your situation excites in me is pure envy.

LOL - a perfect example of how 'AIBU' rakes up all that is thoroughly unreasonable in MNers at large!

"Of course I feel guilty about outsourcing a job I have time to do myself! " I agree with Sophable: both you and your DH will be outsourcing loads of things that you have chosen not to do yourselves, from buying runner beans to paying someone in Sainsbury's car park to wash the car.

The important thing is that you work as a team to keep your household and children running as smoothly and happily for all concerned. And you both deserve time off etc. Get a cleaner and use the time and energy liberated to do something else within the partnership, or else to catch up on the 'overtime' you do at other times to create your own time off!

I wasn't having a go at you for bringing it up Lily. I was trying to apologise (to the OP) for going off at a tangent myself and to make it clear that I thought most SAHM (and WOHM) in this country have a close, loving relationship with their children.
I agree it is a cultural thing but the OP is living in the UK and her husband doesn't seem to altogether agree with her and support her wish for a cleaner. It is really between the two of them to resolve it. It's not just her decision, nor just his. It's something they need to discuss.

income here is double that. i have my cleaner 3 hours a week, would love to have her more, but really can't justify it.

When our net income was similar to the OP's I got a cleaner to come every other week.

I was a SAHM but with two pre-schoolers it was difficult to do much during the day, and DH didn't want me to be doing jobs when he came home, he'd prefer for us to relax together.

We had a pretty hefty mortgage, so we had to budget for the cleaner, but I took the view (that has already been mentioned on here) that if I ditched the Fri eve takeway and cooked something nice instead, that would cover the cost, and worked better for us.

People react quite strangely to women having cleaners, in a way that thy don't about men using car-washing services, gardeners and so on, I think it is related to people's perception of the value of women and 'women's work'.

Before I had the DCs, I would have been aghast at the thought of a SAHM (especially one with DCs in school) having a cleaner. I would have wondered what on earth they do all day (cups of tea, gym, manicures...???).
Now I have 2 DCs (one in p/t school) I cannot believe how much there is to do. School almost makes it worse, once you factor in having to have clean uniforms, school play costumes, packed lunch, school run with baby.......
I would LOVE to get a cleaner. I get SO depressed about my stinking pit of a house, but after all the regular chores (washing, cooking etc) I just can't get on top of it. Also, DH is the MESSIEST!
If you can afford it, then go for it! I am v v !

dinosaur - that's an excellent solution, because that's the deal you have with your DH. It all comes back to the OP having to negotiate with her partner.

If I was the WOHP and my DH was a SAHP,living on £3700 per month, then I would probably pay for a cleaner while my children were pre-school age, but expect my DH to do the cleaning himself (or get a job) once the children were at school all day. That's just my opinion.

As it happens, we are both WOHP, and we both contribute financially to outsource things like cleaning, ironing etc.

What seems to be happening is the OP's DH doesn't want a cleaner, and the OP just can't accept that. Which personally I think is a bit daft. Either do the cleaning, and still have hours each day to spend as she wishes (quite a luxury IMO) or work a few hours a week to pay for the cleaner herself.

Ruffle you make an interesting point re common practices.
Where I come from it is seen as an obvious thing to hire help if you can afford it. It is not seen as lazyness, qite the contrary it is probably seen as you wanting to do more interesting things with your time.

BTW where I come from we do open presents straight away, would be rude not to and we also thank in person.
I will start a thread in this regard as we have done everything we shouldn't do at last party.

Violet, I think the problem with your approach is that is gives the DH the trump card - as the earner, he gets to decide what the money gets spent on. I couldn't respect my DH is he didn't respect me and my contribution to our lives - which includes raising our family and supporting his career.

So if DH hands over responsibility for keeping house to me while he works (as he has done), it's up to me how I manage that - outsourcing and all.

I really don't get this 'the main earner gets to have the final say'.

Dh is by far our main earner, I earn a bit, but it's 1/4 to 1/5th of what dh earns. It all goes in one big pot, and we have an equal say in what it gets spent on.

I agree Lily. It's all about valuing contribution to family life equally - financial input as well as the unpaid childcare and home-making that enables the earner to go to work.