To think my sister is selfish for choosing not to breast feed?

[IHateWinter]

She hasn't even had her baby yet but has already decided that she doesn't want to try it and if she does she'll only do it for a month at most.

I've told her that breast milk is healthier and gives the baby antibodies etc, but she won't listen to me. I gave her a baby book that explains why breast is best but she won't read that either.

What else can I say? I worry about my future neice. I understand that she many not want to carry on doing it for a long time, but I really do feel that if you have a baby you have the responsibility to try and give it the best start in life. I really feel she is more concerned about what her breasts will look like than her babies needs.

I'm suprised by how strongly I feel. I find myself avoiding her in case I end up saying something upsetting. Am I being unreasonable?

Oh, and before anyone says, I AM NOT A TROLL I am a regular poster who has name changed.

Oh I'm really sorry I'm just apologising to tik tok for being one of life's cynical old bags and frankly taking up so much of her time - old conversation stretching back over several days now - far too long and I should stick with scottishmummys wise words and avoid getting sacked and flipping do some work.

For the fourth time (count 'em....) bellissima - your 'warblings' were the COMPARISON you made between having a baby at 15 (reduced risk of breast cancer, as age of first pregnancy affects risks) and breastfeeding (reduced risk of br cancer, because breastfeeding affects risks). You said having a baby at/before the age of 15 was 'probably' more effective at lowering risk of br cancer than bf.

I'll say it again: you made a COMPARISON which was utter warblings. Both (age of first baby, how you feed) are factors. But you don't know which is the greater factor.

Dammit - I'll say it again. It was your spurious COMPARISON ....geddit?

Now you are talking about not having children at all as a risk for ovarian cancer - I don't know if this is more or less important than feeding method. I'd have to look it up. I have never said anything about it!

eh? was that whole last thread to me sabire? I can't recall saying half those things!

I see the new shift has arrived (no a joke, honest!) just as I really have to go. My last comment was not to you but an earlier question. Thanks once again to tik tok.

When my mother/mil had their babies (30 - 40 years ago) the advice of the midwives was to FF.

In fact my MIL was given no choice - she was told BFing would be bad for baby as there was no way of seing that he had had enough milk.
She genuinely felt that she had no option - when I had my babies, her advice was that BFing was not a good idea.
Luckily I ignored her, but how many daughters will listen to their Mothers telling them "You were FF, and you're fine now" and also "BFing is disgusting" (I have heard this one from a few friends)
Girls tend to listen to their mothers, and raise their children similarly, so it's a vicious circle.

"What I was trying to say is that I can't understand how a person could not want to give bf their best shot"

Because for some women it is simply not part of their culture - maybe stretching back several generations.

Cultural norms are incredibly powerful, especially when they involve sexuality.

I remember reading a book where a woman comments that when she was pregnant the idea of bf was so alien to her that she could imagine milk coming out of her elbow more than she could imagine it coming from her breast!

You can't overcome powerful social mores and traditions in a few short years, even with a barrage of public health promotion - social change just can't happen that quickly.

Yes yes tik tok thanks again and no need to shout, really, ttfn

oh seaglass - we're both thinking along the same lines!

Belissima, if you're still here, only that last comment on my mega post was directed to you!

"no need to shout, really, ttfn"

Oh I think there is actually.

[fans tiktok with dog-eared copy of 'Breastfeeding Matters']

hy do people keep trying to kill the thread?
sick of it? stop posting. leave the rest of us to make our choices, in an informed way . No need to keep on asking why it's still going, that's getting tiring.
geraldine - apologies, i was another who thought you were looking for specific advice.

Hi Stealth, no, just wanted people to realise that not breastfeeding is not always a selfish choice. So far noone has responded to this though!

Apologies for confusion. It was tricky to word it to be honest!

I've just reread your post (had to scroll past the scary smilies) and I'm trying to understand. For you, it's disgust (sorry if that's too strong, can't thin k of another word) at the thought of something within your body going into your baby? And issues around the sexualisation of your breasts?
What would you want the outcome to be? Do you want to overcome it and bf, or would you rather ff from the start? Would feeding expressed milk be any better?

Geraldine - we mothers generally do the very best we can for our babies, based on what is possible for us (culturally, socially and emotionally) and according to what we know and believe.

Honestly - we can all start from this position and still arrive at very different views on ff and bf.

geraldinerose - we have discussed the individuality of choice, though, and how many factors may impact on it, including the mother's own mental/emotional aspects:

tiktok Thu 05-Nov-09 10:44:46

Not that that means we can;t talk about it again

I did shout at bellissima, didn't I? Loudly and repeatedly.

Wonder why I did that?

stealth, yes if I'm honest it is disgust and the difficulty in somehow reconciling this discrepancy in my mind with the sexual versus the nurturing function of my breasts. Would like for it not to be an issue and bf for at least a few months, maybe more if all ok and baby happy etc. I've looked into expressing and will certainly make sure I have all this set up and ready before the birth.

Sabire, this is why it is so upsetting, because I feel that bfing would be best and will feel so guilty if I can't do it as can't get that opportunity back. Again, I'm not looking for support, I jsut really feel taht a lot of people don't get that some women just can't handle it and are not being selfish!

tiktok, but it's not a choice though, it's mental block I feel I have no control over at the moment.

if you would like for it not to be an issue, and to bf, why not get support to do that?
when are you due btw?

Stealth, you may it sound like support for this is commonplace! due in april

well I think the issue around breasts being sexual is fairly common and lots of people will have dealt with it.

oh and april is a very nice time to have a baby - hopefully warm and dry with light nights but not too hot

I think there is support and help for this, geraldinerose - probably a bit of talking therapy would be a start and you could ask a midwife you know and like about your mental block and take it from there.

Hope you get the help you need.

ta!

maybe something like this is the real reason for OP's sister?

Geraldine, it is quite a common issue and also BF counsellors are used to dealing with people with even more complex issues e.g. people who have issues with being touched due to a history of abuse (which obviously affects more than just BF, but does affect BF too).

BF counsellors like tik-tok are trained to understand the enormous range of complex issues that make it hard for people to BF - everything from psychological ones to odd nipple shapes. Their training helps people to overcome these in all sorts of different ways but is always meant to be supportive rather than pushing people. It's like going to learn how to do carpentry - no one can make you do it once you get home but going to an expert will give you the best chance to do it if you want to.

The more someone knows about BF, the more sympathetic you'll find that they are to the full range of reasons people don't do it - even if they are also less tolerant of misinformation about it - partly because misinformation is one of that very range of reasons people end up not doing it, often despite having wanted to do it in the first place.

In my experience, lack of empathy towards people who don't BF may come sometimes from people who did it without difficulty and don't really understand from personal experience why someone wouldn't. Also in my experience, the people who feel strongly about it enough to go through training as peer supporters and BF counsellors are those who had the hardest time overcoming obstacles to BF, and therefore have (a) the most sympathy with people having difficulties and (b) the least tolerance for people who put those obstacles in the way of women who want to BF succeeding. Those obstacles may be misinformation, lack of support, or even well-meant statements like "why not just give a bottle?" or "at the end of the day it just doesn't matter" said out of kindness but in fact very undermining.

Long before I was ever pregnant I was primed by a FFing friend to look out for horrible people trying to pressure me to BF - people who wouldn't understand just why someone might not be able to do it. Since having children and struggling with some awful difficulties BFing, and succeeding only despite some of the 'support' offered by people like midwives, I've discovered that while you can get the odd judgemental BFer just like any other kind of parent, there really isn't a huge group of nasty unsympathetic BFers who just want to push their choice on other people. There are however some people who know a lot about it and can really help, and who are trained to be supportive of any choice. So do investigate the possibility of someone helping you to overcome your issues - maybe you'll succeed with their help, maybe you won't, but don't whatever you do rule it out because you're expecting pressure and think you'll find it hard to say 'no' - in the end, it you will be quite able to say 'no' if you still don't want to do it.

Thoughtful post imfty

I wonder if I know you in r/l? There's something .... familiar..... about the way you 'talk'.

yes great post imfty. will not elaborate as know this isn't supposed to be about me but thanks. x

i hope i've also managed to expand the discussion a little to show it might not always be that someone just doesn't WANT to bf for their own reasons.