To think my sister is selfish for choosing not to breast feed?

[IHateWinter]

She hasn't even had her baby yet but has already decided that she doesn't want to try it and if she does she'll only do it for a month at most.

I've told her that breast milk is healthier and gives the baby antibodies etc, but she won't listen to me. I gave her a baby book that explains why breast is best but she won't read that either.

What else can I say? I worry about my future neice. I understand that she many not want to carry on doing it for a long time, but I really do feel that if you have a baby you have the responsibility to try and give it the best start in life. I really feel she is more concerned about what her breasts will look like than her babies needs.

I'm suprised by how strongly I feel. I find myself avoiding her in case I end up saying something upsetting. Am I being unreasonable?

Oh, and before anyone says, I AM NOT A TROLL I am a regular poster who has name changed.

Havent got time to read the replies, sorry.

@OP

Your poor sister in law. Hopefully she has a nice supportive mum / sister / friends who care about her and don't just view her as a breeding cow.

Butt out. Motherhood is hard enough without other women being judgemental bitches.

zooropa - but you can only tell the quality of a study by actually reading the study. You can't tell how reliable it is from the conclusion and it's not correct to assume that there is safety in numbers. This could be explained in a variety of ways i.e. that perhaps the funding for studies into the beneficial affects of breastfeeding is better or that studies are only published if the make that kind of conclusion.

It is necessary to read and criticise each study or the main pieces of research which the guidelines are based on at least in order to form an independent conclusion.

sabire - they are not all we've got. They are merely what you believe is most important to consider when making your own decision for your family.

So - if you want to know which food will give your baby the best chance of good health and the lowest risk of ill-health, exactly what other evidence do you consider, other than anecdotal evidence (which I'm sure you would accept is often unreliable and can be very misleading) or research? Intuition? And where would that leave us with the mums of the 1960's and 1970's who 'intuitively' felt that their 6 week old baby was ready for steak and kidney pie?

"I believe it is education and considering your own decision which protects you best from harm not blindly following research."

Err - who is recommending 'blindly following research?' "I would always consider a educated and informed parent making their own decision and taking responsibility for their own baby" - well, fair enough, but how can a parent make an informed decision if they don't have access to a range of information which includes research evidence? How else are they to find out about the possible health implications of their choices as to how they feed their babies and children? Seriously?

"I think we need more support for everyone no matter their choices and less advice/book/guideline following."

What, even if their choices are positively harmful to their children? What bollocks. As a society we have a responsibility to protect those people who can't protect themselves. Part of this responsibility involves keeping those who care for the vulnerable informed as to the best way they can avoid putting their charges at unnecessary risk of ill-health.

Whether those who care of small children choose to follow this advice or not is up to them - but it doesn't let governments off the hook of making this information available in the first place.

"that perhaps the funding for studies into the beneficial affects of breastfeeding is better or that studies are only published if they make that kind of conclusion".

But government funds studies into breastfeeding. Nobody else is very interested as there isn't money to be made out of it. Who benefits from deliberate attempts to mislead the public about the benefits of breastfeeding?

Formula research on the other hand.........

I have read several studies all the way through. I have formed my own conclusion. It feels as though you are trying to argue that the sky is red here, sorry! Though I understand what you are trying to say I think it's a bit pedantic. You are basically asying they you believe breastfeeding is better but that it has nothing to do with the research? I do find this an odd point to labour, sorry. I think your other points are actually more sound.

BTW, everything you are saying makes sense to me Sabire! I'd be very surprised if many people can put their hand on heart and say they don't believe bfing is probably nutritionally better.

However, it is easy to get a bit too obsessed by it all. Bfing is not a good thing if it is going to turn the mother into a demented lunatic

Absolutely Sabire - although I do think generally support is lacking for mothers. Not just about breastfeeding/formula feeding but accurate information about life with a newborn, the abscence of a community for many people, health visitors from the dark ages who give inappropriate advice - I don't think that curiosity meant we need to support people who are neglectful towards their children.

Breastfeeding isn't right for everyone, and I am sick of the pressure that people like you put on new mothers who are probably having a tough enough time of it without without being made to feel guilty. It didn't work for me both times, the second time, I almost didn't try because I had had such a bad experience the first time, I tried and managed less than 2 weeks and the anguish I went through mentally and physically was enourmous and then to have people banging on as if your baby is going to suffer dramatically because you haven't breastfed is just so ...words fail me.

Give your sister a break and let her make her own decisions. I am glad I didn't have a sister like you and you going on and putting presure on her might just be making ehr more stubborn. And why change your name??

I think that for any body to suggest that there isn't information on bfing, indeed very much pro-bfing information, available to prgnant women clearly hasn't been near an (NHS - can't speak for others) ante-natal class, midwife, HV, hospital post-birth MW and so on and so on in over ten years (ie the time I had my first child - and no doubt well before). Obviously mothers need to see relevant information and believe me they see and hear it.

But that's what I find very strange. Because I'm certain that those reading/quoting/pushing endless research papers on here have already had their children, made the decision to Bf them and are very happy with that decision. Great, but why do they then feel the need to carry on reading endless mainstream and obscure studies on the subject, and clearly spend far more of their time engrossed (argh sorry) with bfing than with other highly important child health issues? What is the particular fascination? What is the particular deep-seated need to push this issue? Is it because it's something that you managed to do despite difficulties? Is it because other things are lacking? There are a great many important child-related (and other!) issues out there but I'm quite sure that you won't have much time to devote to them given the amount of reading of bfing studies that you do. If you are a medical professional devoted to this particular area then ignore what I'm saying, but if you are not maybe it's time to wean yourself off the subject.

zooropa - My choice for my family is that I do believe it is better and it has nothing to do with studies. It is simply to do with the fact that human babies are meant to feed on human milk. This would be the premise for my original choice to breastfeed which has since been supported by my experience of breastfeeding being more compatible with my lifestyle. Why would I need to be advised by studies in order to have formed my own conclusion that BF is best? My own choice for my own family only has to be my own.

The sky has many colours, red is one of them.

sabire - I'm not trying to imply that there is a conspiracy to try and mislead parents. Often getting studies published moves people's careers forward. There is a motivation to produce a study which will be published. I also believe there are scientists who hold particular beliefs and are motivated to prove them and this can influence, either consciously or subconsciously, the impartiality of research.

People do have access to research, they don't have enough access perhaps but they do have access. HCP have more access to research, if they chose to they could help parents gain access and interpret research.

I never said no guidelines I said fewer.

When deciding what to feed my children in my house I would generally consider fresh things which were less processed as a sensible choice and when considering when to wean I would look at when the baby showed an interest in food and had skills to feed itself. These would be my decisions for my family. I wouldn't think steak and kidney pie was particularly healthy for me and therefore not really for my children, I wouldn't need a guideline to tell me that. Some parents would need suppirt in acquiring the skills to make these judgements however which is why I think people need consistent support and care from the same midwife or health visitor during their child's early life. This is something we are moving away from as a society. We are moving more towards the issuing of guidelines, without the support his just gives more opportunity for harm IMO.

"I think that including the opportunity to buy formula with the healthy start vouchers and not banning formula milk means that the Government doesn't believe babies are damaged by being formula fed which is what some anti-formula people would like other people to believe."

I would be very surprised at this! I've always understood that the reason the government subsidises formula for people on low incomes is to stop people who don't know any better or who have no money using plain cows milk (or goodness knows what other cheap alternative) for small babies. They know that if they didn't do that then the people who won't or can't bf could end up using some very inappropriate alternatives instead.

If you were looking at bottles of breastmilk and bottles of formula on shop shelves and choosing between them, almost no one would choose the formula - it would be a total no brainer. The reasons so many people end up choosing formula in reality is because the breastmilk is not in bottles, it's in breasts, and so there are lots of other factors that come into play. It can be quite a reasonable decision for some people to use formula - it's all about context and personal circumstances.

Using formula is only a selfish decision if the person doing it believes strongly that breastmilk would be better for their baby but decides not to use it for their own benefit in some way. But people like that are incredibly unusual, I don't think I've ever met one, online or in real life! Usually people who use formula for 'light' reasons such as being concerned about breast appearance don't have a strong belief that breastmilk is better (they often think there's not that much to choose between them). I happen to think they're wrong there but I would call that ignorance, not selfishness.

Impfty - ''Using formula is only a selfish decision if the person doing it believes strongly that breastmilk would be better for their baby but decides not to use it for their own benefit in some way. But people like that are incredibly unusual''

Am just being in a bit of a pedantic mood here but can't say I agree with this. people I know who've stopped bfing believe that breastmilk is better but have found bfing to be very painful and difficult and have given up for that reason. They're not being selfish, just trying to preserve their sanity!

"I think that for any body to suggest that there isn't information on bfing, indeed very much pro-bfing information"

There's lot of information about the benefits of breastfeeding, but very little information about the risks of using formula. Women who don't intend to breastfeed I suspect don't fully access public health information on the subject, and in my experience midwives rarely if ever get involved in detailed discussions on the subject with individual mothers.

I supplemented my first baby with formula without having a clue as to what the possible disadvantages might be, and I was a graduate mum in her 30s who came from a background of teaching on health and social care courses! It's only now, 10 years, two babies and hours and hours of reading later that I feel I have a reasonable grasp of the issues underpinning that choice I made as a first time mum.....

I don't know why I am choosing to post on this thread as I am not going to say anything new or revolutionary.

I just wish people would live and let live. We all have such different lives and priorities. I think people who choose not to breastfeed (NOT those that want to and try and can't or are taking drugs that prevent them trying, have had implants etc..) are just prioritising their lives differently.

They want the freedom of being able to get other people to help feed their children (ie. their own Mums, their partners/fathers), they don't want to make the "sacrifice" of their time by possibly being welded to a needy baby and they don't want their lives turned upside down too much by having babies so they choose not to breastfeed. Fair dos - what I don't like is when people don't say as such.

Instead they rail on people who DO breastfeed and make out that they are all trying to make them feel bad.

If people wish to believe that there are no extra health benefits to being breastfed then I guess that's their choice too - but it's an undeniable fact really isn't it? If people believe that there ARE extra health benefits to being breastfed and choose not to, then that's their choice too but at least they are acknowledging that other things are more of a priority in their lives.

I have members of my own immediate family who chose not to breastfeed from day one. I see they have different lives and different priorities. They are younger and still want to go out of a weekend and have the grandparents babysit and take their children away on wee holidays. It's not how I choose to parent and I think it's sad in a way but hey, they're never going to see it that way so we just don't discuss it - absolutely pointless.

As to the OP, I think you're going to keep quiet and concentrate on your own children aren't you? You will be a saner person and a better sister for it

Thanks ajamore, I've agreed to drop like I said. The only thing is everyone on here's forgotton that I will be having to do the bottle feeding too, if that's what she chooses. I feel miz at that thought. (But grr it's her decision) Repeat mantra: concentrate on my own...MYOB...concentrate on my own..

"to drop it like I said.

Why will you have to do the bottle feeding? Why can't she do it herself?

That is one of the downsides of bottle feeding although it is often listed as an upside. When ds was small family members were always asking if they could feed him but I didn't want them to, I wanted to snuggle up with him and to look into his face, I resented that being taken away from me.

Great post ajamore - very well said

There's no way I'll not be doing the bottle feeding along with some very long extensive baby sitting. I'll have to be making some of those FF feeds. Sigh....still just happy if my sis has a healthy baby really.

Fair enough if you are happy with the babysitting but if you would rather not you should make it clear from the outset.

Freddo, you're talking about a different group of people. I didn't say that all people who give up are people who don't think breastmilk is that much better. I mean that the people who give up for what seem like quite 'shallow' reasons are often those who think there's not much to choose between the two milks. Obviously there's also a huge group of people who believe breastmilk is lots better but give up because they can't do it.

Suppose you've got someone who for whatever reason has not become convinced that breastmilk is that much better. They think there's really not that much to choose between them - formula is absolutely fine, breastmilk is just a nice but totally nonessential extra. Suppose they then decide not to try breastfeeding because they don't like not being able to get riproaringly drunk or they think their boobs will suffer. Now IMO that's not a particularly selfish decision.

Forget for a moment what other people think, or research shows, about breastmilk - given that they believe - rightly or wrongly - that there's not much in it, then that puts choosing breastmilk v. formula on the same footing, as, say choosing a buggy. In which case, 'ability to get totally wasted' or 'not wanting to have a baby sucking on a breast' are as good reasons as any other to choose between them. It's not selfish, just a sign of lack of knowledge, IMO.

My family is all over the place. Dad's got problems, Mums got problems. Sister is still like a teenager. Brother is depressed. That's all the family there is. When anything goes wrong they ring me. When Mum's upset with sis or bro. It's round to my house for a moan and advice.

Since I've lived on my own with DCs hardly any of them help me out, because although my world might be falling apart, I get on with it and rarely ask for help and never advice. Sis has only become aware I exist again since she got Pregnant and has already told me she'll want plenty of babysitting help. Has demanded why it is that everyone's bought her something and I haven't without a thought to my own financial difficulties.

Now my worry is when this baby is here she won't be able to take on the responsibilty. She thinks BF at 6 mths is yuck. Is agaisn't it for cosmetic reasons etc.

People made a point that what my sister chooses is not my business, but i'm so used to being counsellor and advisor to everyone in my family that it's hard for me to back off if i see something i think is not best happening. And i pretty much think that I'm the one who'll be helping my niece through.

I only hope everyone here is right and she becomes a great mum and my niece is fine.

YABU.
BF is not always best, you can have HIV or hep B/C which you can give to your child by BF (if he doesn't already have it). Also if you can't stop smoking/ drinking.... you will pass on toxins to your child. If you live in contaminated areas (near a dump for example), dioxines and PCBs, (many others pollutants), accumulate in your body fat and are released in your milk, so you can be poisoning your child while BF. Same if you eat a lot of fish with mercury in it (true for some northen canadian populations and some japanese).
If you diet is horrible, there is also probably not much point BF.
People my generation (I am 40) were almost exclusively FF, and we are mostly fine (actually we had less asthma and eczema than kids now). If your kid is really allergic, you can pass down allergens in your BM as well, so would have to control your diet.
The benefits of BF can be selfish too (less cancers for the mum, and the uterus shrinking back quicker).
I am playing devil's advocate here, but all the above can be referenced in research litterature, there are not inventions.
If you are healthy, eating properly, not contaminated and avoid "drugs", BF is best as it helps the guts/immune systems and lungs to mature properly, is made especially for human babies not veals, it is v. safe if your water supply is contaminated...
I do agree that you should try, but ultimately, everyone must do what they feel is the best for them, being an unhappy and resentful mum is not good for the health of one's child.
I did try to BF, found it hard, and was relieved when DD deciced to stop at 3 months. My boobs are still as they were at 20 (lucky me!)

Hmmm I do see what you're saying impfty, but I really can't believe that anyone could think that breastmilk is not better with all the info you get from midwives etc... You'd really have to walk around humming with your fingers in your ears and your eyes closed

impfty: you're correct when you say formula has voucher support to enable women who are not breastfeeding and who are on a low income to select an alternative formulated for babies and not anything else.

It has nothing to do with a govt belief or otherwise in the safety of formula - of course, there is a consensus that formula is preferable to other (non breast) milks or foods. Actually, we don't have research on that - we don't need it, do we?