To be worried about this mother's bahaviour?

[mumofasnottybaby]

Ok, I don't know this woman personally, she is an acquaintence of my sister and her friends. Hence I don't know all the details, plus don't want to give too much away anyway. Have namechanged as well for this - not a troll!!

She is treating her son as though he is disabled/SN - but he isn't. She is constantly going on about how much is 'wrong' with him. He isn't toilet trained (at 5) - but she hasn't tried toilet training him. He has a feeding tube inserted into his stomach because by spinning various tales she convinced heathcare professionals that he was unable to eat (he is perfectly able - my sis has witnessed!). He has been on long term antibiotics for chest infections - the pediatrician has taken him off them because he can't understand why he's on them in the first place. She's now giving him the ABs she has left at home against advice. She is also trying to get him into the SN school even though all healthcare professionals involved have now said there is no need because there is nothing wrong with him!! She is quite open about all this. My sis and her friends are all close because their DCs all have SN of varying degrees of severity - it is almost as though she wants him to be disabled so she can join in. She frequently makes comments about his behaviour (normal for a 5 yo boy) and cites incidents where he has fallen over as evidence of his 'disability'.

Don't get me wrong - I realise that mum knows best and my sis and her friends are the last people who would be unsupportive of someone trying to get a diagnosis, but the more she tells me about this woman the more I think she is at serious risk of doing her son some harm. If I were my sister I would be considering reporting her to SS (would never do it myself as realise I'm getting this info second hand). My sis thinks she can't report her as she doesn't know her surname or address (she just knows her through various parenting groups). I think they'll be able to trace her easily enough as my sis knows the school he goes to and the consultant he is under. WWYD?

madamearcati-in the recent high profile media case of a mother with FII, a feeding tube was fitted under anaesthetic to her son,as the mother convinced doctors he needed one, as he couldnt eat normally. Since her arrest, she has admitted decieving Drs for many years. Therefore, sometimes, not often, a feeding tube can be fitted for no good cause, and also unnecessary procedures carried out.

I am v.unure about this.

On the face of it the OP seems pretty clear cut. This woman is a loon.

But as claw says, SN can be really complicated. There are conditions that no one really understands. Thousands of kids never get a clear diagnosis and have all kinds of 'weird' problems.

Parents often have to treat the children's symptoms as they arise and develop a sort of 6th sense regarding their child's ill health. I could tell DD was aneamic long before any medic. I had to push and push to get them to transfuse or even take BTs to check. It felt awful to have to argue and push for something I really didnt want to happen.

From my experience of certain groups it only takes a confident person to start saying 'thats a bit odd' for others to join in with bits of 'evidence' and a new rumour is born. You have to be very careful about this sort of thing.

BUT I have parents who seem to thrive on medical attention. They love to see themselves as the supermums of 'disabled' children. Usually the child does have an intial problem but the parent just cant let it go. Long after resolution the child is still being presented as sick or SN.

I used to see some parents on the general wards almost flying with the buzz they got from being there. The loved it. The attention, the drama, the whole bit. They were never (IME) parents of chronically or seriously ill children. They were the droppers in. I know it sounds bizarre but I saw it. I suppose it was pretty harmless because the children were not in for long but I can imagine how people could get caught up in it all.

I know a mum of several children. She is quite nice if a bit irritating. She only ever talks about her kid's conditions and problems. She is for every waiting for referrals from one source or another. All the conditions are either vague/hard to diagnose or just nuts. She and her OH are fair but because her DD was born with blonde hair she insisted that she was 'borderline albino' , her sleepy DD3 had narcolepsy etc etc. But she loves her kids and is a good mum. I think she is fairly harmless, just wanting a bit of excitment.

if op only knows this 3rd hand how can anyone here speculate on Ax, diagnosis and treatment.on what paeds may not have done

on the basis of what is known eg anecdotal conversation told to op.
op was alarmed

no one can accurately
speculate the maternal diagnosis
speculate paed Ax or treatment

curious people warn caution about SS involvement but have no such caution about making on-line diagnosis or guessing paeds Ax/treatment

chegirl makes good points

otoh I think stress can look like an excited buzz too- sometimes it can be hard to distinguish between seemingly loving it and near-hysteria

the way I react to stress is I become super-brisk and cheerful and very eager to perform in any way that seems expected of me

which clearly doesn't look good from a Munchausen point of view

the worst of having a non-diagnosed child is you are free to imagine all sorts, so no horrors can be excluded really

'She is for every waiting for referrals from one source or another'

Welcome to the special needs world!

Had to giggle at the 'borderline albino'

Bigpants1 - and do you think that 'high-profile case has passed the medical world by , and only us MNers are in the know about it and need to alert the child's paediatrician to the fact that the mother might have MBP
Egg sucking and grandmothers are springing to mind !

I haven't seen anyone making an online diagnosis on this thread, scottishmummy

but I think before we made one (not that I am in the habit myself), we would want a firsthand account from someone who had actually met the child

and is it not just possible that the group of friends are influenced by the recent news story of the mum faking SN? (the timing is certainly interesting)

wasn't that how the false accusations in the Shieldfield abuse case happened: some mums got hold of another news story affecting another nursery and talked themselves into believing that the same was happening in their own locality?

claw I DO realise how that could look . I suppose you have to meet and listen to her to know what I really mean. I have a SN child so know how the system works. I have only just got DS's dx after waiting around 2 years.

Its more that she seems to come up with various things and then asks for refs to specialists which mostly do not happen. You can probably understand why when she is trying to get a blonde child referred for abinoisim

cory absolutly agree about the brisk thing. I used to get a fair few s whilst DD was ill. Apparently I didnt behave the way I should have. How you are supposed to behave when your child is being admitted for the 5th time that month I dont know! We used to get problems with new members of staff who thought we were a bit too knowledgable and too comfortable in a medical setting.

Thats why I tend to be a bit wary of sticking the MSBP label on anyone.

Even now I am very up front about our family history when I have to go to any appointment/hospital attendence. I tend to be very tense and edgy at these things now. I must look a bit sus and I dont want anyone thinking I am hiding something. I know I come across and v.odd when in that sort of situation.

many saying the mum has Munchausen by proxy.attempting maternal diagnosis

Münchhausen by Proxy is associated with Roy meadows the discredited paediatrician, and MSbP is a controversial diagnosis.challenged by peer review research

Just read this thread with interest and am pleased to see OP has passed on the information. I do understand the concerns about the 3rd hand nature of this info and the impact it could have on the family, but often social services do get these sorts of judgements right and involve the right experts to help them.

this is where some mums of disabled children feel, like Claw, that the safest route is to stay away from other mums altogether.'

Yep me too, I dont often socialise with other Mums, i think I bring them down anyway.

even if it doesnt turn out to be an abuse case, it may teach the mother to not give out contradictory information about her sons condition"

i think doing that ismpretty normal; on a good day if you ask me how ds1 or ds3 are I will say fine despite whatever the relaity is, putting a face on. On a bad day quite the reverse. And at times I have had to work through alot of complex issues so my take evolves and changes, absolutely- once I as certain ds3 did not haev ASD, that ds1 did not need a SN placement, that mayeb ds3 had conditions instead.... dealing with SN is a process and can indeed be contradictory

Besides, if she hasnt broken the alw why should she be taught not to do something? er what?

'otoh I think stress can look like an excited buzz too- sometimes it can be hard to distinguish between seemingly loving it and near-hysteria' Absolutely.tr

SM I agree with you over MSbP- backl when I did SSd work we were told that it was a very tenuous DX at best; the dsm does cover it under the name given below but it needs assessment.

You canmnpt dx a person online.The best you can do is advise someone to be seen or call SS,and emphasise the presence of stats aboput early intervention when theya re appropriate.But even if a case seems clear cut online, RL never is that way.

I think I have tried to make it clear that I was not talking about parents of chronically ill or seriously ill children.

I know I am not the only one who noticed it. It is something quite a few of my friends commented on. They also had to spend more time on the ward than in their own homes.

We thought it odd that anyone would want to be anywhere near a hospital. But I suppose if its not serious and you dont have to do it a lot it could seem exciting.

I am sure you are right, chegirl. But still feel a little uncomfortable about your first sentence: "I think I have tried to make it clear that I was not talking about parents of chronically ill or seriously ill children." Just because of all that time we spent with nobody believing dd was chronically ill. So I suppose that's how I must have come across to other people.

But I am sure there are such people.

Still a little at the timing of the OP though.

claw maybe I wasnt as clear as i thought .

I mean broken arms and minor ops. Stressful in themselves but after the initial shock, worry had died down IYSWIM.

Not undiagnosed, mystery illnesses. Certainly not worried parents trying to sort out what the hell is going on with their DCs.

I suppose I mean those who have to spend loads of time in hospitals tend to keep their heads down and get on with it til they get home.

Whilst the OP's actions in reporting are understandable, cory and claw and others make very valid points about how this 'better safe than sorry' reporting can be taken too far and give a lot of grief to families with children with special medical needs.

I think scottishmummy you are talking sense here and I've noticed you doing so on other threads. I too get really frustrated at people making diagnoses on MN - what nonsense. Cory says they haven't been doing this but they certainly have - I haven't read all the thread but there are several "diagnoses" of Munchausens syndrome by proxy" which incidentally is now known as "fabricated illness" - I just cannot get over the arrogance of people on MN who make these kinds of "diagnoses" when they are not medically qualified and even if they were, you can't make a diagnosis on line for god's sake. Fabricated illness is a very complex and complicated business and needs very very careful consideration.

Also agree that OP should be taking action rather than faffing about posting on MN - maybe seeing it as a sensational post which will inviite a lof of interest. If that was her intention she has succeeded.

madamearcati-if you re-read my post, I did not mention the dc or the mother in the OPs post.
Neither did I say that we MNs were the only ones who knew about the recent case in the media and that we should alert the dcs paeditrician.
And, just for good measure, I made no dx of the mother in the OPs post-only what was said of the mother in the recent case.
I was merely responding to your statement that feeding tubes etc. are nou put in for no good reason.
Hit a raw nerve and sour and grapes are phrases that spring to mind!!

The thing to remember is that cases like the one you read about are very uncommon. A case like this in the news and suddenly everyone is a qualified Dr,and see everyone who is disabled as a potential threat.

I agree Claw- we heard about it on the radio and after the initial WTF we both said that it might help them find maybe one or two other DLA fraudsters but we bet that many,many innocent people would have thier lives made a little bit more challenging becuase of it.

I think reporting was probably right in this case as if things aren't as they seem, then posibly Mum needs a bit extra support and that might be helped by this..... but I do hoppe people do remember that generally, a DX is very hard to get and most people would cheerfully give up their legs (you an have both of mine, one per child) not to be in the sit

Bigpants -Do you know what sour grapes means ?.I can't for the life of me think what you mean ,unless you are insinuating i am jealous because I want my child to have a feeding line.If so it is tantamount to accusing me of having MBP which is bang out of order.

took 18mths static weight, hypoglycaemic coma and several other hypos / aspiration pneumonias / hospitalisations before dd (diagnosed with chromo disorder after birth) was given gastro

staggered that someone could get feeding tube on fake premise (accept the recent case and was v eh at it all)

madamearcati-im sensing that you are choosing to deliberately misconstrue what im saying-perhaps you have nothing better to do!Im not accusing you of having any disorder or of being jealous of anything.
Yes, i know what sour grapes means. Heres one for you-stop finding fault where there is none.

Bigpants wrote
' I was merely responding to your statement that feeding tubes etc. are nou put in for no good reason.
Hit a raw nerve and sour and grapes are phrases that spring to mind!!'

What does that mean ?

OP, I'm now wondering where you (or your sister live) as there is a woman and her DS who sound very similar living locally to us.- actually, it can't be the same one, as this boy is now 8.

The DS has had a feeding tube inserted for about 3 years, because of an underlying condition, but can eat normally, but this causes more problems, hence the feeding tube.

He has a suppressed immune system, and is very susceptible to chest infections, and has spent an awful lot of his life on AB's.

He is still not potty trained due (found out this year) to some bowel problem that was very dificult to detect - something to do with nerves I think, and he is likely always to be incontinent.

For years, his mother insisted something was wrong with him, but doctors wouldn't listen - she ended up seeing the doctor every day for weeks before they finally sent him for tests, and found she was right.

They also found some autistic spectrum disorder (?) and found that mainstream school was fine, but he did need one to one to help him with social interacting etc.

The mother went through years of vicious gossiping, endless referals to SS, well-meaning strangers in the street telling her to stop ruining her DS's life and just enjoy him.

I know you've now reported this, but I think this is unfair, as you don't know anything about her, or her son. Gossip isn't always right.