To be worried about this mother's bahaviour?

[mumofasnottybaby]

Ok, I don't know this woman personally, she is an acquaintence of my sister and her friends. Hence I don't know all the details, plus don't want to give too much away anyway. Have namechanged as well for this - not a troll!!

She is treating her son as though he is disabled/SN - but he isn't. She is constantly going on about how much is 'wrong' with him. He isn't toilet trained (at 5) - but she hasn't tried toilet training him. He has a feeding tube inserted into his stomach because by spinning various tales she convinced heathcare professionals that he was unable to eat (he is perfectly able - my sis has witnessed!). He has been on long term antibiotics for chest infections - the pediatrician has taken him off them because he can't understand why he's on them in the first place. She's now giving him the ABs she has left at home against advice. She is also trying to get him into the SN school even though all healthcare professionals involved have now said there is no need because there is nothing wrong with him!! She is quite open about all this. My sis and her friends are all close because their DCs all have SN of varying degrees of severity - it is almost as though she wants him to be disabled so she can join in. She frequently makes comments about his behaviour (normal for a 5 yo boy) and cites incidents where he has fallen over as evidence of his 'disability'.

Don't get me wrong - I realise that mum knows best and my sis and her friends are the last people who would be unsupportive of someone trying to get a diagnosis, but the more she tells me about this woman the more I think she is at serious risk of doing her son some harm. If I were my sister I would be considering reporting her to SS (would never do it myself as realise I'm getting this info second hand). My sis thinks she can't report her as she doesn't know her surname or address (she just knows her through various parenting groups). I think they'll be able to trace her easily enough as my sis knows the school he goes to and the consultant he is under. WWYD?

You can make a confidential report/phone call to SS and they will keep you and your sister out of it, the SS will make a routine check with the child and her parents to see if child abuse is taking place, they are trained proffessionals who will assess this and not listen to tittle tattle
So ring SS asap

The whole point of the disorder Munchausen by proxy is to make people genuinely believe your child is ill. how you do that can be through many different forms, one of which might be to try and make people think you must be on a level by being so open as clearly if you were putting it on you wouldn't be.

I certainly think this could be M by P and as such worth reporting to SS / the childs doctor but equally something might have been lost in translation and this might actually be nothing to worry about.

Münchhausen by Proxy is associated with Roy meadows the discredited paediatrician, and MSbP is a controversial diagnosis.challenged by peer review resesrch

Its obviosuly difficult not knowing names etc but I would be very very suprised if nothing was happening behind the scenes iykwim.

The school, GP, Dietician people should all be acting is they are suspicious of the mothers behaviour. And without sounding rude if your sister is feeling this worried and other people around her, alarm bells should be ringing in the ears of people who have been trained in this kind of thing.

But saying that it could all be speculation and nothing at all to worry about, but reporting child abuse/potential child abuse is now everyones responsibility by law I believe. I'd be suprised if describing the above to SS did not immediatly bring familes name to thier minds. Good luck in whatever you or your sister decide to do.

Does the boy go to school/nursery? Surely they would have noticed that despite having a feeding tube because he cant eat, he eats.

Also if all the health professional involved have all confirmed there is nothing wrong with him, they must be on to her.

fwiw a very innocent interpretation of this child and his medical problems could be this - he CAN eat but in fact aspirates it into his lungs as his swallowing is faulty. So he gets repeated chest infections. Docs insert a feeding tube to give him nutrition and prevent this aspiration. Therefore child may be seen to eat seemingly normally but it isn't safe for him to do so. Child hasn't had as many infections since getting feeding tube so docs advise to stop antibiotics as to continue may just encourage resistant infections.

Mum disagrees with this decision - lets face it how many threads are there on here bashing doctors and saying mum knows best - and therefore continues the antibiotics. She is open about all of this as there is nothing whatsoever to hide, and she makes friends with other parents of SN children as she feels they might be more understanding to having a child like this (afterall Sn takes many forms and just because this child appears normal doesn't mean he doesn't have problems).

Or it could be Munchausen by Proxy.

To my mind though I would repor it - if all is innocent then there will be no issues at all and better a small amount of upset to his mum when she learns there has been a report, than the ongoing abuse of her ds.

scottishmummy I agree MSbP has a dodgy history and the diagnosis of it may have been misused - but I do think it happens. My own mum is very slightly like this, gets a huge kick out of anyone being ill, and often told us we were ill when we weren't really. It seems to me it definitely does exist in some of these cases.

AFAIK he goes to mainstream school and mum has been trying to get him to have one to one but the school can't get funding because he's been assessed as not needing more help than normal. As to the toilet training - she didn't do it because he 'wouldn't be able to do it'. The more I talk about it, the more bizarre and concerning it sounds but it IS all anecdotal. I believe my sister of course but I really hope it's not as bad as it seems.

trying to access sn school without statement of Special Educational Need, and no paed support will surely get concerns raised

to be tube fed dietitian,salt and gp must be involved too

deep breath OP you MUST report this if you believe it to be true

you know the mum forename
town she is in
her child name
groups she frequents
you cite your sister as source
all this can be done anonymously

I would say having a feeding tube and wearing nappies is needing more help than normal!

I dont see how experts can say there is nothing wrong with him, then give him a feeding tube to be honest.

Dishing out feeding tubes is not something experts do, just to pacify mum!

scottishmummy - I don't know the mum's name at all - or the child's or the school etc. only my sister can tell me that. I am waiting for her response to my message, then I will act.

we dont know what the result of Ax and consultation that required feeding tube was.we cant speculate on why it was inserted we weren't there dont know what mum reported

that sounds a hell of a lot like munchausens by proxy methinks!!!!!!!!!!1

I also cant see a mum who has gone to all the trouble to deceive everyone into thinking her ds has all these severe problems, would go to a group and tell everyone she is lying.

with all due respect everyone needs to stop guessing MSbP.ease up on on line diagnostics.

given no one has met,assessed taken history or corroborated this story.them no one can attribute any diagnosis or motive

AFAIK, Munchausens by proxy is not about deceiving as an end in itself. It's about the parent getting attention and sympathy, and therefore being duplicitous about the child's health as a way to do that.

Fri 30-Oct-09 13:28:53
"If the woman had Münchhausen by Proxy, would she be telling your sister her son doesnt have a chest infection, but she just give him antibiotics regardless. He isnt toilet trained, because she hasnt bothered toilet training him. Experts have confirmed there is nothing wrong with him.

Surely the whole point of this disorder is they try to deceive!"

Claw makes a very valid point here. The information that nothing is wrong wiht the son can only have come from the Mum, as the mothers group would not be privy to his medical notes. Seems strange if she is trying to make out that he does have medical problems, to then go telling a group of other mums that he doesn't.

It is of course possible that he is capable of eating sometimes but not at other times. Or that he is capable of eating but it causes problems.

otoh I think you absolutely need to report if you have good reason to believe something is wrong.

otoh I can also imagine a scenario that goes like this:

"There is this girl in my ds's school whose Mum claims she has problems walking. Yet a paediatrician she saw said there is nothing physically wrong and it is all in the girl's head. She always seems to be off sick, but it's never explained why. Besides, I can prove there's nothing wrong with her walking: I've seen her run about. So that wheelchair is just one big con. Besides, I've heard that the doctors even refused to get her a wheelchair, so the Mum went out and bought one with her own money. Sounds sick to me "

That would be my dd they'd be talking about. Who had to wait 8 years for a diagnosis and another 3 years for the medical professionals to agree that yes, occasional use of the wheelchair was likely to be the most sensible way forward. Because some disabilities are intermittent.

So I would try to find out a little bit more first. Remember that even if there is a genuine condition, help may be withdrawn if funding authorities get suspicions of fraud- and before they can get reinstated a child can suffer a lot of damage. So investigate first.

Would also add that special needs are often very complex, conflicting and hard to understand. With my own ds, i might well look like a liar to someone who is unfamiliar with his disorder.

MSbP isnt necessarily about concealment in fact alleged perpetrators seek out,request help.they dont avoid HCP-they get them on board for interventions

so the proposal that MSbP is about trying to deceive and conceal is erroneous.

but all of this speculation (and it is speculation)about maternal diagnosis digresses from fact that OP has to report this to SS. citing her sister as source if need be. this can be done anonymously

Quite a few children have been taken into care because of my dcs' disorder: because doctors have refused to believe that such a weird collection of symptoms could have any connection with each other.

Not to say that Munchausen doesn't happen. But the problem is that once an accusation has been made, this can stop medical investigation that needs to be done. The junior doctor who tried to persuade the consultant to do further tests on dd got very short shrift from his superior; he'd already decided it was all in our heads and that was that as far as he was concerned.

Thanks SM, you put it better than me! exactly!

But also agree with Cory. Very tough call.

scottishmummy Fri 30-Oct-09 14:08:35
"MSbP isnt necessarily about concealment in fact alleged perpetrators seek out,request help"

Yes, but not usually by telling other people that there is actually nothing wrong with their dcs. Which in this case is information that the OP's sister's group could only have got from the mother.

It is also useful to remember that even if the mother seems to be over the top, the child may still have a medical disorder that requires treating. Everybody agrees that Leslie Udvardi, the mother in the Redlands case, was overreacting and pushing for unnecessarily invasive investigations
pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_abuse03.3...

But eventually, the children were investigated and it was found that they did indeed have a medical condition which needed treatment. But by then the children had already been taken into care.

I agree that someone should maybe report this. But not on third-hand gossip. Either the OP should make an effort to meet this woman, or she should leave it to her sister.

i dont see this op as tough call at all
the only call is the one to SS

Its not called Munchausen by Proxy anymore its caled F.I.I (Fabricated Induced Illness).