to be getting a leeeetle bit hacked off with the postal strike...

[AtheneNoctua]

Today I have to take a 2 hour lunch to sort out a Halloween costume because I can't rely on the mail to deliver one if I order it online. That is 2 hours of my work which I will have to make up if I want to be paid for it.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8327158.stm

I selfishly hope they hire the contract workers.

What about the public who relies on this service? Where is our compensation?

I will add I don't know the details of the reasons for the strike (because they aren't reported and not because I haven't looked). So I don't have an opinion on whether the strike is justified.

But I am starting to feel they have made their bloody point and I want my mail service back.

TheDevilEatsBabies, for what its worth, I also am impressed by your endurance and your graciousness. Its hard being a minority dissenting voice and many others might have given it up as a bad job by now (myself included, perhaps!).

Your imput has certainly helped me form some opinions about the CWU and its tactics, so thank you for that.

I do appreciate that personally for you (and for all RM staff) you this is a horrible situation. And you do very much have my sympathy on that count.

It wasn't intended to be patronising southeastastra.

I was simply pointing out that if a jounalist is using Mumsnet of all places as their primary source of information, that is rather telling about how inept CWU have been in making that information available.

I do have to say though that I dislike the cries of "journalist!" everytime any vaguely topical debate crops up.

Maybe the fact that someone is asking questions is becuase they are intelligent and interested, not because they're trying to find a story.

And even if they are, so what? Does that make the debate less worth having?

I didn't interpret it as bitchy, TheDevilEatsBabies. As I've said, I think you've been very gracious on this thread.

However, I do think it's reasonable to be asked to support your argument with links and facts if you're going to engage in a debate. You can't expect people to take what you say on faith.

But I accept that you never set yourself up as an expert!

I agree with Princess I think: the Royal Mail is a public service; it ought to be a good service, and supported by the government- so I suppose I mean by the public purse. Rural post offices, etc are part of the fabric of society and for some the postie is the only person they will see all day. Really, really bad management has run the service down over many years, the labour govt has not supported royal mail as if it is a public service, instead wanting to privatise it, and I just think the whole thing is really, really sad. I think striking workers generally must be in the right because striking is a big sacrifice, it is not something that a poorly paid person does willy nilly- no one wants to lose pay. I think people who act as part of a union deserve respect, not condemnation- they are standing in support of not only their colleagues but also other ordinary workers who face issues and difficulties. Yeah, so the strike is inconvenient: but blaming the posties for this is wrong, they are not taking action lightly.

"...blaming the posties for this is wrong, they are not taking action lightly"

I think very few people are blaming the postmen and women themselves, wook.

It is starting to appear to me that that it is the CWU who are serving their interests - and also the cutomers' interests - poorly.

Phew just got back from the news office shops. I generally agree with notanumber (surprise surprise). Obviously for the people whose benefits are threatened it is shitty. I don't think anyone thinks otherwise.

I know you're not google devil, I just have had a really hard time finding out what it's all about and I'm still none the wiser unfortunately.

I do think that the union have not done a very good job of garnering public support with this one. I wonder if it is worse in London where we are used to tube strikes etc every 5 mins too and it all starts to wear a bit thin... Either way they should be getting their message out there better. People are very fond of the institution of the RM, and so I think they have really missed a trick. But then again does it matter of the public support them or not? To the outcome I mean. In the old days I would have said no - but with all this "court of public opinion" stuff maybe it does make a difference.

Of course the posties are going to lose out- opr sacrifice, depending on how you look at it- but it isn't just them and some recopgnition of that would helppeople. if you don't give 100% support you're supporting the scabs or whatever- but tehre seems to be no reagrd for those of us whose livelihoods are affected, or people who depend of the RM for other things- my bling neighbour who can't get his reading material through, whatever...

Preople say that the management have poor communications; well both sides do. I shouldn't have to google to find out why my mail isn't arriving or being posted after all. When the firemen were on strike it caused more danger and put people at greater risk (and almost caused the cancellation of a major event that was important where I lived,seemingly not much but OTOH I bet it was if you;'d out in a year of unpaid prepareations as at a guess 500 people had), but they got out there with placards, spoke topeople in the shopping centre and generally amde it known why they were striking.

Which is a step up, at least.

Southeastastra, I'm finding this thread depressing too

I'm with Southeastastra and Thedevileatsbabies on this (and anyone else on here who's supporting the posties...sorry haven't read the whole thread, just dipped in and out of it).

A couple of people have made the point that the strikes won't garner support from the general public. I hear the same comments every time there's a tube strike or any other major strike.

Can I just point out, unions don't strike in order to win public support. That's not how it works. Billy Hayes doesn't care if you support the CWU. Bob Crow doesn't care if you support the RMT. Woodley and Simpson don't care if you support Unite. They all care if their members support them. They care if their industrial action is successful in negotiating the pay, terms and conditions, pension deal, whatever it may be that they're fighting for.

And yes, strikes are inconvenient. That's the whole point. If postal workers striking didn't inconvenience their customers in any way, there would be no point in their striking.

I know it's stating the obvious but there seem to be quite a few posters on here who don't seem to get the basic principle of industrial action.

And yes, the CWU are known for not having a very slick press machine. And yes, Royal Mail do. No change there then. Very few unions do have good press machines. They're not in the PR business. They're in the business of protecting workers' rights.

The unions on the underground are excellent at letting people know what exactly they're striking for every time they strike. Down to the percentage points and pay periods in question. You always know exactly why they're going out.

The underground also really does have everyone over a barrel.

The RM less so. There are alternative services, ordinary people aren't as reliant on the post as they used to be.

As for support - I would have thought that the public will get behind anyone striking for a good reason. The problem is that people don't know why the RM are on strike. But as you say, the postmen don't give a toss whether the public think their action is reasonable or not.

Are they right to think that though? In this day and age public views do matter - the government does seem to be swayed a lot by public opinion. And so if the public say they don't think the strike is a reasonable one - then the government may be less likely to give in. If the public are outraged and eg the sun/daily mail get behind the workers - well that might improve their chances of getting a result.

RamblingRosa - "They care if their industrial action is successful in negotiating the pay, terms and conditions, pension deal, whatever it may be that they're fighting for."

The "whatever it may be that they're fighting for" is telling I think. It seems that no-one really knows. This is a problem.

If even those people who are in favour of the strike action don't really know what its for, then what value does the action have? It's not an especially effective bargaining tool is it?

CPW: We think you're a big bunch of bastards!

RM: Right-oh. So what is it you want?

CPU: Don't you dare steal our pensions!

RM: We aren't. We're stopping final salary pensions, but that will only bring you into line with the vast vast majority of the country. And anyway, if we don't do it we will not ever have any money for anything else - like overtime - and we'll end up here again because its unsustainable.

CPU: Yeah, well, that's only like a minor issue. The main issue is that you're bastards and won't pay us overtime!

RM: We've just said that that is impossible while we're trying to make up the pension deficit and retain final salary pensions. If we freeze them we can sort out the overtime.

CPU: No! Leave our pensions alone!

RM: Its not really possible. We can keep it up for a while I suppose, if the taxpayer bails us out maybe, but not forever.

CPU: No! We want it forever! And we want overtime!

RM: Look, we're struggling financially. We have to make some changes to the way we work in order to survive.

CPU: No! No changes to anything! We're owned by the government so the taxpayer can foot the bill. We don't give a monkeys about whether it's financially possible. We'll just get the government to keep pouring money into us.

RM: .......

It's not as clear cut as if you disagree with the strike action it means that you are not "...supporting the posties".

I do have a great deal of sympathy for those individuals whose pensions are threatened or who are facing longer and harder working conditions.

But it's a very difficult time for many industries at the moment. If they are going to stay afloat then difficult changes must be made, and those changes affect everyone in the company.

rambling Rosa its not just inconvenient- we didnt get a vote but won't make our wage the usual way this week. To us that is significant. We can only cover the business the way we are for two weeks, after that we're landing back into benefit territory (only just got it uop and going as it is- after a redundancy

' That's not how it works. '

Well other people compared to the tube; with the tube there are few reasonable alternatives bar the buses which people often dislike,and expensive taxis. With the post, customers will simply choose to go elsewhere, get over the initial hurdles and stay away. Get their business sorted for e-billing, or whatever. Once lost customers often stay away so i think the posties are playing a risky game with their own livelihoods.

I assure you that every time the RMT has gone on strike, I have heard people say that they don't understand what they're striking about. Even when it's been reported in the press that it's a health and safety issue, for example, people still always perceive it as a pay issue and trot out the usual "drivers are paid more than I am and I'm not striking..." shite.

Anyway, back to the CWU strike. I've managed to find information about the reasons for the strike both in the press and online.

I agree it always helps a cause if there's a public outcry in your favour but I really don't think it makes much of a difference to most unions if they don't have much public support. As I said, it's about their members' support, not the general public's.

Oh I am not makimg a moral; jusdgement wither way BTW, but i refuse to search for the reasons in order to gain sympathy for posties: they want it they should imptrove their press relations.

Does any family of, or actual postie acknowledge that some peoples livelihoods are at risk becuase of decision tos trike made by RM staff? And do theyca re? Becuase nobody so far has responded to any mention I have amde of it.

No idea what I think CPU is....

Sorry. Don't knoow where that came from!

Well the tube drivers don't care about disrupting everyone, so long as they get their money. I guess the same thing is true of the RM.

Problem is, there isn't any sensible alternative to the tube, and you have to get to work. There are alternatives to RM. People will take their custom elsewhere/find other ways of doing things.

I think they have an inflated sense of their own importance. I for one don't even notice when they're on strike. (Our postman seems to save the post up and do it twice a week or so rather than every day anyway).

As for people not understanding why the tube go out - they might not have read the articles BBC etc etc. It is always detailed. I have googled a couple of times and read the links on here etc and I'm still not clear what exactly this strike is all about.

"whatever they're fighting for" was in reference to whether it's the RMT fighting on a health and safety issue on the tube, or firefighters striking over pay, or CWU fighting for their terms and conditions. Point was, whichever union, whatever the issue....

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

more strikes happening, no agreement reached yet

rambling this thread will just wind you up like it has me. it's only the bloody post office not life and death people.

Why is there no alternative to the tube? Bus? Cab? Overground? Bike?

Yes, there are some people who just live too far out on the tube system to make it into work but most people find alternatives to the tube. It's just a major inconvenience. Just like the CWU strike.

I don't think anyone can really argue that the tube workers don't have London over a barrel.

southeastastra - "it's only the bloody post office not life and death people."

Debate is interesting. It informs opinion and keeps your brain active.

As long as no-one is being personally offensive - and I don't think anyone has been on this thread - then disagreement and discussion is a good thing, in my opinion.

Certainly better than deciding your position then shutting your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to countenance any discussion on the matter.

i've felt personally offended for dp on many of these posts frankly.

I'm sorry you feel that way southeastastra. It certainly wasn't my intention and i'm fairly sure it wasn't anyone elses.

Do you think it was?

notanumber: 'Debate is interesting, It informs opinion and keeps your brain active.'

I couldn't agree more!

Even (or especially?) if you don't agree with me...

The posties are striking to secure jobs. The truth is, no industry can 'secure' jobs. Everywhere is slimming down. I think the union has a much wider agenda TBH - it's about punishing Labour (to whom they give millions and get nothing back), and warning Shadow Business Sec Ken Clarke not to privatise (which he has said he will do, 100 per cent).