to be getting a leeeetle bit hacked off with the postal strike...

[AtheneNoctua]

Today I have to take a 2 hour lunch to sort out a Halloween costume because I can't rely on the mail to deliver one if I order it online. That is 2 hours of my work which I will have to make up if I want to be paid for it.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8327158.stm

I selfishly hope they hire the contract workers.

What about the public who relies on this service? Where is our compensation?

I will add I don't know the details of the reasons for the strike (because they aren't reported and not because I haven't looked). So I don't have an opinion on whether the strike is justified.

But I am starting to feel they have made their bloody point and I want my mail service back.

I hope thid fiasco encourages the NHS to start sending appointments by e-mail instead of RoyalMail. They would save a fortune.

INeedACleaner - "TBH posties (whether you agree or not) don't have it as bad as a lot of them make out yes there are problems but believe me they are better off than a lot of people are but you don't hear them grumbling about the good points do you?"

But that's madness. It's akin to saying that someone who has just had his legs aputated should keep his mouth shut and not complain because there are people in the world with no legs or arms either.

If they have a grievance with their job conditions and pay they are perfectly entitled to raise them.

Again, I question the wisdom of the stike as a tactic, but that's not to say that they shouldn't be complaining.

"you wouldn't be getting it as cheaply as you do with RM either"

You do realise that the only reason is that RM are allowed a monopoly on the postal service don't you. They don't do it out of the kindness of their hearts, they do it because they get a massive amount of money to run the postal service.
So don't try and pretend they're doing us a favour.

notanumber it is nothing like that at all.
I already said I wasn't going to get into this but like another poster said doing what they are doing in both the run up to Christmas and with the current climate of people taking pay cuts and losing jobs it is not the way to gain sympathy.

Nobody has said they are not entitled to raise a grievance in their job everyone whatever sector whatever the job should have that right.
I just don't think that striking is the way to go about it when in reality they actually don't (In my own opinion) as I have said have that much to complain about.

Believe me until I met DH I wouldn't have had a clue whether they were right or wrong and I also did say that I didn't agree with all of their grievances which may suggest I agree with some.

I would rather pay 75p to have my letter delivered properly and punctually than 36p for RM to deliver it slowly and sometimes not at all.

I had a pair of diamond earrings once delivered to my house. They were sent signed for delivery. They were left outside my house in the branded "Hot Diamonds" packaging all day and no card through the door. I complained to the sorting office and they said "it's been signed for". It transpired that the postman had signed for the parcel himself and dumped it on the doorstep. .
I complained to the regional manager who couldn't even be bothered to reply.
So do I have any sympathy for the postmen ? Not much. I've had the "sorry you were out" slip put through the door when I was in the kitchen, 18ft from our front door. Then you can't pick them up for 24 hours. Apparently they don't take parcels out on their rounds cos they're too cumbersome. I don't really care. As a customer I have paid (a lot) to have the parcel delivered to my house, not to go and collect it from the sorting office.

oh, I certainly don't believe the mail should be run as a for-profit enterprise, but strikes are putting RM in a position where they HAVE to compete with private companies because strikes are driving business into the arms of (poss more expensive) competitors because some companies need reliability more than they need a few extra p. Price isn't the only point that RM is going to have to compete on.

IMO the postal service should be reliable and not profit-driven and the govt should consider it revenue-neutral (ie, not MEANT to turn a profit). Private companies can cover next-day, huge boxes, etc.

That doesn't change that striking now for things that (for better or worse) are not in line with most of the public's working conditions, translates into an unsympathetic situation for strikers. If they waited until after Christmas to strike they may find people more receptive.

If the union is striking for perfectly reasonable things (as this thread proves, it's not exactly clear) then surely they should get their message out there. I mean, they come by my house every day and put loads of junk through the letterbox... surely a flyer explaining the strike action wouldn't be too much to ask?

Oh, and to answer your implication, after the Christmas presents my grandparents sent me a couple years ago disappeared into the ether of a postal strike, I don't use RM anymore if it's something that matters. I pay the extra to use a different courier.

I thought they were unhappy about what they want to do with their pensions - is there other stuff?

Fibilou, I have had that as well - the postman put a 'while you were out' card through my box three days in a row - days that I had specifically stayed in to receive the letter (my debit card) which was returned to the bank as undeliverable after the third day .

By Fibilou Tue 27-Oct-09 12:04:47 Add message | Report | Contact poster

"you wouldn't be getting it as cheaply as you do with RM either"

You do realise that the only reason is that RM are allowed a monopoly on the postal service don't you. They don't do it out of the kindness of their hearts, they do it because they get a massive amount of money to run the postal service.
So don't try and pretend they're doing us a favour.

they're not allowed to compete for large parcels though: so in that respect, TNT, DHL etc have the monopoly over them.

i'm worried about dp losing two days money and you're worried about a halloween costume

lordy

I do think there is a problem with the reasons for the strike not being made clear in the media.

I do think that the timing of the strike is awful in terms of our economy, lots of people are struggling and therefore they are unlikely to get sympathy.

My dp has to use the mail a lot as he works from home, he has just become more reliant on email and other couriers. If this strike goes on he and others will just get used to doing that and RM will lose custom.

I don't think postmen do earn a lot to be honest

"and you know what? you wouldn't be getting it as cheaply as you do with RM either. "

Exactly why they need to modernise, to be able to continue to support and maintain this excellent service.

there has been so must misinformaton in the media, nothing has been made clear hence these ridiculous threads. and is is right that adam crozier earnt 3 million last year and yet cannot even bring himself to attend talks?

I agree that in the scheme of things a halloween costume is rather minor, but the OP does say a little annoyed and not bloody furious because her world is about to end.

I can remember posting in a previous strike because my disney tickets went missing in the strike and the people in the office refused to help. Of course your livelhood is more important than disney tickets or costumes but when it affects you it is annoying.

i would also like to point out that because of the problems in management decisions and "modernization" taht they're gettign horribly wrong, rounds aren't covered properly (and usually by temporary or agency staff) and that's where you get your problems with things being left on the doorstep and being returned undelivered.
the way the changes are happening might mean it'll happen more and more as posties are being laid off left right and centre and the ones that are left are being made to do even more work.
that's to the detriment ofthe customer.
and believe me, the posties do have the custoemr at heart, which is why they've had to take such drastic action.

TheDevilEatsBabies - "...why don't you look at the reasons behind the action, look at the union literature and listen to some postal workers instead of believing what you read in the press?"

You seem quite engaged with this situation, are you able to succinctly lay out the Union's argument? I'd be very grateful.

Can I ask if you feel that the stike is a) justified and b)likely to achive its aim?

This thread seems to be demonstrating that the strike itself is not winning much sympapthy, but the grievances themselves might do if the public were clearer about what they are.

on the contrary in the 'intelligent' media the strike has lots of supporters.

the usual daily mail etc is guilty of printing lies

Morgueosky

"I can remember posting in a previous strike because my disney tickets went missing in the strike and the people in the office refused to help. Of course your livelhood is more important than disney tickets or costumes but when it affects you it is annoying. "

the post office is now a separate company to the royal mail and they cannot help with missing deliveries.

it is frustrating, but that's what happens with privatization.

TheDEvilEatsBabies - "...and believe me, the posties do have the custoemr at heart.."

I have to take issue with this.

Lets say you work in a bank or a sandwich shop - anywhere where you have an identifiable end user. Would you strike - losing a few days pay - because you felt that your customers weren't getting the best service? I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't. I might complain, I might campaign, but I wouldn't strike.

Postal workers are striking because they are protesting about their working conditions and threatened redundancies; they are acting to protect their livlihoods and their pensions. Which is absolutely fair enough.

I don't think that any pretence that they are doing it foor the good of the public is helpful. I'd suggest that this line will make the public feel patronised and deceived.

notanumber.

have a look at the CWU's website
here

they lay out the reasons behind it and explain the problems

no, i don't think the strike will get it aims, but yes, i do feel it is justified.

but it won't achieve its aims as southeastastra points out because the £3m fat cats won't listen to the arguments.

"i'm alright jack"

notanumber,

of course they care about their jobs, but if the RM is privatized or modernized in the wrong way, it will have an affect on its customers.

and in the public sector, workers would leave and go elsewhere.

ok, let's say for the sake of this discussion that striking is perfectly justified.

How does that translate into striking right before Christmas, and therefore losing the trust (read: custom) of both businesses and consumers?

How do you think the RM can win back the trust of its customers that require reliability and have adjusted to using another courier in the meantime?

And will this not lead to more strikes when RM inevitably has to cut back?

It seems like a really vicious cycle that the strikes are just going to make a LOT worse.

fibilou I quite appreciate that "they" don't do it out of kindness .

I also appreciate that "they" are given a reasonable amount of money to run the service.

This is then paid to postal workers to run the service.

Therefore, a service they should run. If they don't like it, get a different job. Don't hold the country to ransom. It's simple. In my company, if I don't pay well enough or give the right benefits, I don't get staff. They complain by leaving, not striking. That's how it should be. Striking is an outdated and unreasonable form of blackmail and simply causes bad feelings and lost business. It is short sighted and in the long run, doesn't work.

southeastastra so get them to work, not strike, then you won't be worried about losing the pay. Or, get them to get another job if they're not happy. That's what the rest of us do.

notanumber of course they have a right to raise a grievance. But there are ethical ways of doing it, and this isn't one of them. Neither is this a good way of ensuring that the Royal Mail continues to develop towards being a viable business, and guess what, viable businesses can't run.

so you suggest i tell my dp who has worked at rm for nearly 20 years to go and get another job, just like that, at age 50? lol

and he and other will be losing lots in pension that the government have conveniently 'borrowed'

GiveCarrotsAChance - "...there are ethical ways of doing it, and this isn't one of them."

Agreed. In fact, I did say that "...I question the wisdom of the stike as a tactic..." in my post.

I'm interested by your use of the word 'ethical'. In your opinion are there ever circumstances when striking would be an 'ethical' form of protest?