and disloyal to womankind to NOT find this offensive?

[Astrid28]

I am now a SAHM. DH runs his own company and it got to the point where I could give up work if I wanted to. I wanted to, so here I am.

DH transfers money for the food shopping into my account and I also use the joint account for other things, like birthday presents, DD's lessons/pre-school clothes shopping etc.

A friend of mine has described me on several occasions as being an old fashioned housewife.

I laughed and said I suppose I am! She then went on to say that I shouldn't be pleased with the situation. Don't I find my life boring, and what about my life when my kids grow up and leave home - what then?

I'm still very happy with my situation, but should I be?? Am I 'letting the side' down?

It's a huge conversation stuffit, but I think the bottom line is, you don't 'teach' it to your children, they absorb it through how you live, and what they experience. For example, I think my dd's have taken on board that it's perfectly normal for a woman to be a professional, and to earn a good income, through seeing me do it, rather than just telling them 'You could be a doctor/lawyer/teacher' etc

I agree that with the smaller things there is more of an element of 'engineering' things, but with the bigger picture, children learn by role models and what they experience in the big wide world, rather then what they are told IYSWIM

But I have never beleived that feminism wasn't beneficial to men too.

Yes voilet but what if she wants to stay at home and feels inadequate for wanting what could make her happy? But I agree with your point about absorption. I did stun my youngest a couple of days ago by telling him my job in a previous life. It's annoying how paid work seems to get more respect even from the sods sweet peas you gave it up for.

Orm I am lifting my petticoats to trip lightly down to the fridge and remove a large beer. Am simply imploding with equality

I have six hairs on my chin. How equal does that make me?

[shallow]

How rude of your so-called friend! Next time she comments you should say that you are very happy with the arrangement and it is unwise to criticise other people's choices.

There are benefits to you and your children of staying at home, as there are of you working. It's your choice to make, you are aware enough to know that you are lucky to have that choice. Either she is sour grapes, or just needs to have it pointed out that it is rude to make such comments (you don't comment about her working do you??)

stuffit - I think you've hit on the million dollar question!

Does anybody have a right to choose just what makes them happy, if actually, it's not necessarily the best outcome for everyone in the family?

I'm making this as a theoretical point, rather than pushing any particular ideology, but it's interesting isn't it?

Should a woman stay at home, even after her children are in school, if actually, the best scenario for those children is to see a mother busy with her own working life, contributing to the family income?

And who decides what the best choice is? It certainly shouldn't be unilateral - it would be entirely unfair for a woman to expect to stay home if her parner disagreed.

It's a huge topic, and the more you think about it, the bigger it seems to get.

I can't believe that in this enormous thread only 1 person mentions a pension!

But yes, if you feel fulfilled, have sorted your own future financial situation including a pension, and can live quite happily and independently if your husband buggers off with his secretary, then why not?

mornngpaper - I agree 100% on that one. I am truly astounded by the number of people I know who have given no thought whatsoever to pensions. I hope to live a long and fruitful life beyond retirement age, and I certainly don't want to be doing it on a state pension, or just reliant on DH's

betadad I think I know that couple!

DwayneDibbley, I didn't express myself too well, but I agree completely. And my dad would agree too. He was all for placing a high regard on the 'intangible' contribution, and having grown up in a house where there was always hired help, he actually knew how much the household labour would cost, taking inflation, etc., into account.

I wouldnt be upset by this either!
I am a SAHM and have been since my second child was born. My husband earned alot more than me and he wouldnt want to stay at home with the kids anyway so we decided it was best for me to be home while our children are young.

I am a traditional housewife (very) cooking, cleaning and even sewing etc BUT I also run my own online business. It doesnt contribute ALOT to our finaces but its nice to have it.

we have a joiny bank account which ALL money gets paid into we both have cards for it so we have equak access to the money.

I DO worry alot about things like pension etc but I keep telling myself I am only 26 I have a good education and degree and I have time. I hope that right lol

can you all SHUT UP about pensions please

LOL at stuffit with her fingers in her ears at the sound of pensions!

You know it makes sense though! Imagine, retirement, every day being a day off - I'm going to want some serious spending money. The only thing stopping me spending now is that I'm busy at work! I always spend shedloads more in my holiday time, so realistically, I'm going to be bored shitless if I haven't got enough to live on comfortably in retirement. My pension isn't as good as DH's as I worked part time for a while, but even so, its a lot better than nowt!

YANBU, if you are, than I am one "an old-fashioned housewife" too.

I don't like the term 'housewife' I was described as that (DH registered the birth) on my dd's birth certificate, and I made a fuss and got it changed to 'Bookseller' as at the time I was doing Usborne Books. The Registrar said that 'full-time mother' is not a job.

My dd has started school and I will start voluntary work in a field I want to work in, but I have been a SAHM with the odd 'little job' for the past 7 years.

Your friend has a bloody cheek, it's an important job just like any other. Just goes to show society does not value what we do. I don't know if you are 'letting the side' down there are so many different feminist viewpoints.

mathanxiety - no genuinely I dont equate a persons contribution with money.

The woman friend I have who works part time and is also SAHM has a DH who works in financial services and he lost his job and the new job pays half. She has held that family togther emotionally this year as well as his fell apart.

SAHM is work, its just not paid work. You could employ other people to do all the things you do. Only then do they command payment, when other people do it. The most valuable work in the world and the most underrated in some quarters! Does your friend have children, does she appreciate what it takes to run a home?

Just a thought on femnism being about women making 'choices'. That is fine, I agree totally, but to my mind it is not exactly what the original feminsts had in mind if being able to excercise that 'choice' simply depends on a woman finding a well enough paid or wealthy man to live off so she can live a carefree life without any contribution. As is the case with my dentist's wife example and a few others I know.

Jasper - its not you is it?

violet hill An impossible question me thinks, not least because individual happiness is so often tied up with that of the family and outcomes are dependent on so many factors.

When, as a single woman, I was a running back and forth to court in my previous life as a barrister I was convinced it was essential that any daughter of mine saw a strong, independent woman pursuing a career outside the home. Once I had my children the reality was that time constraints and pressure of work meant that both my personal and professional life suffered: I could not be all things to all people.

I don?t believe I am a traitor to whichever cause might exist to admit that that particular reality was not one I could sustain. My children undoubtedly missed out by having a mother who, whilst successful (and probably something of a potential role model to young woman), had an inflexible career which meant her children often came second.

Maybe one day my DD will be deeply disappointed that I chose to make her and her brother my primary concern and I am of course under no illusion that if I had stayed at work that decision to would be a source of disappointment to her, you can?t win: But I?m not sure pedalling the myth that you ?can have it all? is of any benefit to either my DD or DS. The fact is you can?t .
The best you can do is make a decission and be confident in it. Let you children know that whatever choice they make it is valid one and that happiness, in whatever guise is the way forward.

Oh abatdead no one thinks the normal stay at home role is that. I'm sure you don't.

But if two people want that, with the roles reversed for a man and a woman too, who are we to stop them? It's a choice. A choice people make as people, not as men or women, as people.

You could say the woman in your example plainly makes some kind of contribution, or there'd be nothing in it for the bloke. Her choice, his choice, a mutual choice, a free choice.

It's as though you want to pick an example of something that isn't the day to day life or day to day choice of most people and making it a central issue, which it isn't, really.

interesting post tinkerbellesmuse - and I agree with you. It's a complex issue, and whatever decision you make, you never know what the outcomes would have been if you'd tried things a different way.

One point though - I don't think anyone in real life actually peddles the myth about 'having it all' any more. That's an oudated concept. I don't see having a career and being a mum as 'having it all', any more than my DH sees his role as a parent and earner as 'having it all'. To me, it's just normal, everyday living, and I honestly think that's how it is for most people.

ps Violet I do have a pension that will buy me at least three hairnets a month -- and it's index linked so maybe four by the time I'm sixty five .

I think by that time I will have had such a fulfilling life that I won't feel the need to spend shitloads of money pleasing myself. I have made a huge contribution to my dh's pension with my care of the children and all our moves. It will see us ok. It's not his, it's ours.

I know I'm not going to get to 65 and think oh my lord I've missed out on life and need to catch up. I'm not going to be on my deathbed thinking I wish I'd spent two extra hours a day on the Tube and eight in an office so I could drink expensive wine when I retire rather than seeing my children every day.

Gawd knows I do want to go back to work when my daughter's still living with me so that she doesn't see this role as automatic for a woman. But I've made a choice, as a woman: I could have chosen something different, but I didn't. That's freedom.

You are absolutely not letting the side down.

The point of female emancipation is that as a woman you have a choice about how you want to conduct your life - IMO if you have the money then I think staying at home and looking after your children is an admirable thing to do.

People seem to forget that if you don't get paid help being a SAHM is actually a full time job in itself.

Very interesting variation on a theme here.

I am a SAHM now - up until a few months ago I was a WAHM (self-employed) but then we moved country. Currently I am still contributing a tiny amount because my house is rented out - but I have felt very antsy about having no paid income because I have been financially independent for over 2 decades now and it feels most peculiar to have to rely on DH giving me cash when I need it. I half-joke about it being my "pocket money" but that is exactly what it feels like. Therefore, in a short time (when our house is better set up than at present) I will be looking for a part-time job.

I am actually quite at myself because I thought I would quite like to be a FT SAHM - and I would, but I can't stand the financial-dependency aspect of it!