to not report this child to SS?

[ChickandDuck]

I appreciate this is quite an emotive subject, but after a conversation with a friend last night I wanted to see what the general consensus on this kind of thing is...

There is a child that attends the same nursery as my DC. I have noticed this DC a few of times, in nursery and whilst out and about, just because there's a couple of things that don't sit right. Both Mum and DC have been in unwashed clothes each time I've seen them (quite clearly unwashed and caked in dirt and muck), I've seen DC on the way to nursery in just a t-shirt (it?s freezing!). Granted, he's not covered in bruises (although he is always red eyed and looks tired/unhealthy?), but does the fact that he is not clothed adequately and washed constitute as not being cared for properly? She could be a fantastic Mum, but is a bit clueless with clothing/washing? My friend (whose job means she works closely with SS) thinks I should phone and express my concerns. It hadn't occurred to me before; I assumed that the staff at the nursery will as aware as I am...?
Plus, as I explained to my friend, the area that I live in neighbours an area that is full of children like this (whilst walking through the other day there was a child, no more than 2yo, half dressed outside the front of her house on her own. Another example would be a mother shouting and swearing at a child no older than 4yo because she asked for something from Greggs ) and if I contacted SS for this child, I'd be doing it everyday I go out?

I feel as if I would BU for phoning SS, I just feel it?s a bit dramatic?

thanks wahwah.

and just to clarify I have NOT seen any bruises.

But the OP said he is not covered in bruises just has red eyes and looks tired.

Also (again) this isn't just 'grubby' (I have 2 young DC myself that constantley look as if they've just taken part in a rugby match) this is clothes that haven't been washed for days. Sat on the bus before and the stench was unbearable (I'm not being mean, just very about the situation.

I'm a newbie here so I hope you don't mind me adding my two-penneth...
A couple of years ago I'd just done some training in child protection as part of my job (I work with vulnerable teenagers but I'm not a social worker) and we'd been told you often don't see the bruises - sometimes it's just hints like a bit of neglect or a miserable, uncommunicative child, that can open a whole pandora's box.
A few days later I saw a situation in the street that rang alarm bells - basically, the mum/carer was obviously off their face and the kid was filthy. I wondered if I was just overreacting because of my recent training, but I reported it and to cut a very long story short, it turned out a whole catalogue of abuse and neglect was uncovered. It went to court and the child, and it's family, got the support and help they needed to sort themselves out.
I'm so glad I said something. It could have been another baby P and I never would have forgiven myself for not voicing my concerns if I'd later read or heard about something happening to the child.
I'd say - speak up. It could be nothing, but if there's nothing wrong, then social services will check and then leave the family alone. They're busy people so they're not going to intervene if there's no reason to, and they go out of their way not to split up families! But if there is something going on, you could be ensuring someone steps in at just the right time. No one will blame you for saying something, you can do it anonymously, and you won't be worrying and wondering 'what if'.

chronic neglect (not saying that's what this is) IS abuse.

Exactly poddy. I actually can't believe people are suggesting to ignore it tbh.

Is there a health visitor you could talk to about this OP? I also think it sounds like the family are struggling in some way.

perhaps they cant afford a coat?

That would be my guess mehdismummy. If that is the case, they need help. He can't be expected to walk to school in just a tshirt in the winter.

no i totally agree i was in the same situation myself and i got help from community care grants and from the lovely mums here but perhaps the poor woman has no support network and needs help i think there is a massive stigma with ss as they can be amazingly shit and people are scared of them. its a shame but they do themselves no favours but as mothers we should help each other not bitch each other.

YANBU to not report this family to SS.
You see this child for a couple of minutes, on the other hand, the nursery workers presumably see her for much longer. They will have dealings with the family too. This sort of thing does not go un-noticed in nurseries. The staff are all trained to spot abuse and every nursery has to have a person with responsibility for safeguarding children.
I can't see any benefit in talking to the nursery either. As a nursery worker, I would be unable to discuss any other children or child's circumstances with you.
You really can't fill in a CAF form on the basis that 'so and so's mum said the child wasn't wearing a coat and looked a bit dirty'.
What this family needs is help and friendship.
Not that everyone excepts help and friendship. If the family suspect that other parents are thinking of reporting them to SS, they might withdraw their child from the nursery. And then nobody would be able to monitor the situation.

"If the family suspect that other parents are thinking of reporting them to SS, they might withdraw their child from the nursery. And then nobody would be able to monitor the situation."

Thats a really good point, purpleone. Thank you

Purepurple, I wasn't suggesting the OP ask the nursery if anything is going on, just share her concerns and leave them to take any action if required. It may be the nursery have concerns about 'damaging their relationship' with the mother, but their responsibility is to the child. In any case a kindly word explaining what they've seen and offering help is unlikely to send anyone running -if it does then a referral to SS/CSC might be warranted.

I think you are incorrect about CAF. If you undertook a checklist for guidance, you would see this child is not meeting outcomes in at least one area and might need an assessment and plan.

I really think the starting point is the nursery.

wahwah, of course the starting point is the nursery, I agree with you there.
My point is that if the issues are apparent to a normal mum on the street then they will be even more glaringly obvious to trained, skilled professionals who deal with these issues on a daily basis and who have a legal responsibility to do so.
Nursery workers are at the front line. They see and hear a lot more than parents would imagine.
Sounds like the OP lives near a deprived area. Probably the situation the OP describes is much more common that people would like to think.

Is this a free nursery? Because if it isn't then how come she can afford to send the children to nursery but can't clothe or wash them?
Other parents should not be getting themselves involved in this. Maybe you could speak to the nursery staff and show your concern and if enough people say something the nursery should get the ball rolling.
The ball is in their court.

Purepurple, I agree that nursery staff are trained and experienced in this area, in the main. However, the reason I would ask people not to assume that the right response has been given is some very sad experiences of professionals not taking action to help, instead 'monitoring' or sharing their concerns with another professional and assuming they will take action. If/ when the situation deteriorates then the referral arrives at my door and another parent who could have been helped at a far earlier stage gets involved with SS/CSC- I wish everyone was as professional as you.

Just read this back- didn't mean to sound quite so gloomy!

Ripeberry - it is a free nusery. It's at the school.

wahwah your point is a good one. The issue is sharing concerns. Sometimes lots of different people have small bits of information, like a jigsaw and until all the pieces come together it doesn't seem like much is wrong.

There is nothing to lose by referring it on (my opinion is to social services)but lots to lose by ignoring it or assuming someone else is acting to address the issues.